Edmonton City Centre Mall (Renovations) | ?m | 2s | LaSalle Investment Management

[kcantor]

A Ghermezian attempt to mollify the CoE over well-founded fears that WEM was killing downtown (back in the day).

some would say it was their attempt to mollify the city, others would say that the city screwed up downtown on their own to the point where what the ghermazian's proposed never made sense regardless of who owned it including everyone who has owned it since (and don't forget it wasn't just wem, that was built at the time, it was southgate and heritage and londonderry and kingsway and westmount and capilano and bonny doon...).

besides, it's not as if other cities didn't also build tons of shopping centres outside their cores during that same era. blaming wem is sort of like blaming jan reimer instead of recognizing that we closed jasper avenue for the better part of 4 years from 1974 to 1978 for the first leg of our lrt and allowed the demolition of the vast majority of our historic building stock and closed several east-west connectors to neighboring fine-grained neighborhoods.

one might think we would have learned a few things about what not to do instead of continuing to do them over and over while blaming all of the poor results on something or someone else long gone instead of changing what we're currently doing (or not doing) and how we're doing it.

 

[dunno]

A Ghermezian attempt to mollify the CoE over well-founded fears that WEM was killing downtown (back in the day).

When the Ghermezians announced the Eaton Centre plan in 1980, WEM wasn't built yet, so it wasn't killing downtown at that point. There were fears about the potentials of WEM, but at the time downtown was losing to places like Kingsway, Southgate, Westmount, Capilano, and the general boom in suburban-style shopping during the '70s. The Ghermezians were part of this, as they had their hand in various suburban commercial properties before WEM, and so you're right that they were attempting to mollify fears at the City that suburban business was killing downtown, but the Eaton Centre plan was announced before WEM opened its doors. Of course, Eaton Centre didn't end up being built until 1987 or so.

 

[David A]

some would say it was their attempt to mollify the city, others would say that the city screwed up downtown on their own to the point where what the ghermazian's proposed never made sense regardless of who owned it including everyone who has owned it since (and don't forget it wasn't just wem, that was built at the time, it was southgate and heritage and londonderry and kingsway and westmount and capilano and bonny doon...).

besides, it's not as if other cities didn't also build tons of shopping centres outside their cores during that same era. blaming wem is sort of like blaming jan reimer instead of recognizing that we closed jasper avenue for the better part of 4 years from 1974 to 1978 for the first leg of our lrt and allowed the demolition of the vast majority of our historic building stock and closed several east-west connectors to neighboring fine-grained neighborhoods.

one might think we would have learned a few things about what not to do instead of continuing to do them over and over while blaming all of the poor results on something or someone else long gone instead of changing what we're currently doing (or not doing) and how we're doing it.

Exactly, not like there are no major shopping malls in other cities too. I think Calgary has a bunch also including Chinook Centre which is quite large and Toronto has some quite big suburban ones too.

Actually in the last 25 or 30 years no new major malls have been built in Edmonton, even while the population has grown considerably. I think WEM mostly stopped major expansions in the late 1980's. Heritage Mall, which was one of the last ones built, is actually now totally gone. So there are fewer malls now than when downtown retail was doing better decades ago.

The current version of closing Jasper Ave in the 1970's, is the drawn out closure of 102 Ave for Valley Line construction that is now way past its original schedule. No doubt that has had a very negative impact on City Centre. So, I fully agree, we neither seem to really understand our history well or learn from it.

 

[dunno]

Exactly, not like there are no major shopping malls in other cities too. I think Calgary has a bunch also including Chinook Centre which is quite large and Toronto has some quite big suburban ones too.

Actually in the last 25 or 30 years no new major malls have been built in Edmonton, even while the population has grown considerably. I think WEM mostly stopped major expansions in the late 1980's. Heritage Mall, which was one of the last ones built, is actually now totally gone. So there are fewer malls now than when downtown retail was doing better decades ago.

The current version of closing Jasper Ave in the 1970's, is the drawn out closure of 102 Ave for Valley Line construction that is now way past its original schedule. No doubt that has had a very negative impact on City Centre. So, I fully agree, we neither seem to really understand our history well or learn from it.

Heritage Mall opened in 1981, the same year as WEM Phase I. WEM was largely built out by 1985. The last major mall was Mill Woods Town Centre in 1988 before the Outlet Mall by the airport. There were major renovations in the late '80s/early '90s at malls like Bonnie Doon and Londonderry, though.

 

[David A]

I think of the approximately 10 malls listed in the previous posts, 7 were built in the 1970's or earlier, so the mall building boom in Edmonton pretty much ended in the early to mid 1980's.

Of course there have been many renovations and re configurations over the years as tenants come and go, with for instance a theatre replacing part of the previous Bay retail retail space in WEM and a car dealership to partly replace the closed Sears department store, some former retail space in others turned into call centres, Gyms, etc...

 

[thommyjo]

Exactly, not like there are no major shopping malls in other cities too. I think Calgary has a bunch also including Chinook Centre which is quite large and Toronto has some quite big suburban ones too.

Actually in the last 25 or 30 years no new major malls have been built in Edmonton, even while the population has grown considerably. I think WEM mostly stopped major expansions in the late 1980's. Heritage Mall, which was one of the last ones built, is actually now totally gone. So there are fewer malls now than when downtown retail was doing better decades ago.

The current version of closing Jasper Ave in the 1970's, is the drawn out closure of 102 Ave for Valley Line construction that is now way past its original schedule. No doubt that has had a very negative impact on City Centre. So, I fully agree, we neither seem to really understand our history well or learn from it.

There’s also a lot of “outdoor malls” and then of course the online reality stacked on these. South Edmonton Common, Airport Outlet, gateway/Calgary trail have seen continued build out and additions for decades. And the suburban model since the 90s where you put 10-25 stores in the corner of the main arterial entrance to every neighbourhood.

Sucks we didn’t have more mainstreets before all this happened. Basically nothing we can resurrect. Not that our existing 6 or 7 are all thriving. But at least older cities like Toronto and Vancouver have the bones to build on. I can’t imagine anything outside our inner ring road ever becoming vibrant/walkable main streets. Maybe that’ll bode well for DT/Whyte long term?

 

[TAS]

I can’t imagine anything outside our inner ring road ever becoming vibrant/walkable main streets.

☹

I also wonder what the neighbourhoods that were built in the 80s, 90s etc will look like in 30+ years when homes that have been neglected start to really deteriorate these neighbourhoods which I don't think have the bones of our current older neighbourhoods that are being re-established.

 

[Greenspace]

New decorative lighting around the parkade.

Reference ID:	Job No 462414796-002
Description:	To construct exterior alterations to a Parkade
Location:	10231 - 103 STREET NW Plan 8622684 Blk 2 Lot P
Applicant:	THE WORKUN GARRICK PARTNERSHIP, JULIA
Status:	Intake Review
Create Date:	1/30/2023 2:07:08 PM
Neighbourhood:	DOWNTOWN

 

[occidentalcapital]

☹

I also wonder what the neighbourhoods that were built in the 80s, 90s etc will look like in 30+ years when homes that have been neglected start to really deteriorate these neighbourhoods which I don't think have the bones of our current older neighbourhoods that are being re-established.

We just need a few new suburbs to adopt the grid pattern. Baffles me why not a single one has yet.

 

[David A]

There’s also a lot of “outdoor malls” and then of course the online reality stacked on these. South Edmonton Common, Airport Outlet, gateway/Calgary trail have seen continued build out and additions for decades. And the suburban model since the 90s where you put 10-25 stores in the corner of the main arterial entrance to every neighbourhood.

Sucks we didn’t have more mainstreets before all this happened. Basically nothing we can resurrect. Not that our existing 6 or 7 are all thriving. But at least older cities like Toronto and Vancouver have the bones to build on. I can’t imagine anything outside our inner ring road ever becoming vibrant/walkable main streets. Maybe that’ll bode well for DT/Whyte long term?

Outdoor malls, in our climate ... ha ha ha. I suppose they are cheaper, but I doubt South Edmonton Common has too much impact on far away City Centre, maybe more on closer places like Millwoods Town Centre. However, all those "outdoor malls" haven't hurt Southgate, WEM or Kingsway whose parking lots often seem full especially on the colder days.

I do think as Edmonton continues to grow and parking becomes more of an issue (South Edmonton Common despite all its parking can be quite a zoo at times) main street retail will actually do well. While our main streets now are not as vibrant as we might want, the general trend is gradually filling in various empty spots and I think that will continue.

 

[Avenuer]

New decorative lighting around the parkade.

Reference ID:	Job No 462414796-002
Description:	To construct exterior alterations to a Parkade
Location:	10231 - 103 STREET NW Plan 8622684 Blk 2 Lot P
Applicant:	THE WORKUN GARRICK PARTNERSHIP, JULIA
Status:	Intake Review
Create Date:	1/30/2023 2:07:08 PM
Neighbourhood:	DOWNTOWN

 

[IanO]

Reclaiming 'the spirit' of the shopping mall.

Opinion: Reclaiming the spirit of the shopping mall

The origin of the North American shopping mall is a story of irony and frustration that sent an architect back to Europe resenting what his idea had become.

www.winnipegfreepress.com

 

[archited]

As pretty as the new light panels are, the effort strikes me as half-hearted. It would have impressed more if the parkade was to be demolished in favor of a more all-round development concept.

 

[God]

That parkade would give a handy or two to be turned into a podium with 2 residential towers on top.

 

[IanO]

It's the best performing part of that asset (west half)...