thommyjo
Senior Member
Yeah. Hamilton is basically Surrey. All the overflow from Toronto and young people are hitting up Hamilton to stay within the GTA still, but get something under 700k
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Edmonton City Centre Mall (Renovations) | ?m | 2s | LaSalle Investment Management
- Thread starter Daveography
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IanO
Senior Member
<700k LOLZ... under a mil maybe.
God
Active Member
I seee a movie theatre opening in block ij since it didn’t end up being in the connect centre.
I think the value prop for movie theaters has been shaken pretty badly, especially after the big rush to streaming after the pandemic. Theatre chains are a lot weaker now then they used to be. I'd be surprised if there is much movie theater expansion that happens anywhere, let alone in the riskier Downtown market.
IanO
Senior Member
Agreed. If ECC loses Landmark directly or indirectly, I would guess that it spells the end of movies in the Downtown in a large format theatre.
Perhaps the Citadel uses theirs as a new form of business as they have in the past.
Perhaps the Citadel uses theirs as a new form of business as they have in the past.
EdmTrekker
Senior Member
Citadel could host the MET for example.
occidentalcapital
Senior Member
It is interesting to observe that ECC already has multiple towers in its footprint which is a little bit different than these purely mall properties that are being redeveloped. I do think they could add 3 residential towers at ECC and that would complement the existing footprint well. It probably wouldn't make a dent in overall retail demand, though. We need something an order of magnitude larger to drive retail demand. Personally I'm hoping one of the new tech startups will grow big enough to build their own tower here. E.g. Jobber Tower. In the new online shopping economy, it seems that we need significantly larger daytime occupancy (office) to support existing retail and other services.
Munanyo
Active Member
Well said. I forgot that it is much easier to build towers on ECC than a traditional retail mall so that is why I'm hopeful this type of development will happen here one day.
You're other point takes us into a new conversation. We NEED to support, grow and attract tech companies here. It would be amazing to have a local tech company become big enough to demand enough space for a new tower (like Shopify in Ottawa or Skip in Winnipeg) but it's too early to tell with companies like Jobber. I wish this council put more of an emphasis on trying to attract companies to relocate, grow + expand here or even set up a satellite offices here but it just doesn't appear to be on the radar for them. If we ever want to see downtown retail do well, we need employers to set up shop here.
Calgary has at the very least been trying to do that and they've actually had some success. Why we don't seem to bother is another discussion probably suited elsewhere.
God
Active Member
What’s that conclusion based off of? New movies are still coming out weekly and are only available in theatre. Multiple movies have been released at the end of the pandemic and afterwards that did quite well and even broke box office records like marvels Spider-Man that came out recently. The new Avatar movie also just came out and theatres are packed with people viewing it. Theatres were weakened during the pandemic because new movies weren’t being made anywhere. They had to resort to playing older movies that have already come out. So long as new movies come out in theatres they will stay thriving. Even Netflix and prime video have started releasing movies in theatres first before adding them to their apps post-pandemic.
I have no doubt that theaters will keep chugging for a long time, I just think expansion will be pretty limited. Cinema chains aren't as well-capitalized as they used to be - Cineplex's stock price is less than 1/5th of what it was back in 2017.
This is coming from someone who loves the theater, especially Landmark city centre.
God
Active Member
That’s because cineplex has some competition. Cinemas like landmark or other newer brands are offering more comfortable seating for the same price. Cineplex who would have quantity over quality of seating in their theatres is realising that times are changing. It’s not just seating of course it’s also new technology. Movies in the last decade have moved away from 3D. More movies are being released in iMax. New technologies like laser ultra in landmark or 4D movies in scotiabank theatre have been filling up seats in theatres. You also have to take into account that the closest big box theatres are a good 15-25 minute drive from the core depending on the season. A new theatre opening in ice district would succeed if done right. If it offers comfortable recliners, takes out 3D and adds an improved 4D cinema, offers imax of course, laser ultra projections paired with Dolby atmos designed theatres rather than just upgraded speakers, could add some type of vip theatre too. Also this would probably be a flagship location so whoever sets up shop would obviously spend a little extra to make their theatre more unique and representative. Cinemas are built to last decades and because of that, most of them are old and have to play catch-up with new tech and upgrades. Not many new theatres will be built in 2020s compared to 2010s but where there is demand they will be built and they will have the advantage of designing a theatre around new technologies rather than upgrading and not fully achieving what could be achieved. But then again who am I? I just created everything :/
David A
Senior Member
I'm not so sure housing prices there are booming any more and construction cranes tend to be a lagging indicator. Office vacancy in TO now is getting close to Edmonton levels, not a good sign for Ontario.
I used to have relatives that lived in Hamilton and actually think it is nice. It was a place that some snobs in the GTA turned their noses up about before perhaps because it was too blue collar (sound familiar?), but with TO being so unaffordable more condo development in places like Hamilton makes sense in the long run. They have more character than some of the other GTA suburban communities and actually already have a downtown. I just think the next few years will be not so great and bumpy.
Edmonton
New Member
IanO
Senior Member
Lagging to a certain extent, but Hamilton (along with Mississauga) will see booms for decades to come.
Downtown & City of Hamilton - SkyscraperPage Forum
Condo development, office development, commercial development and all other forms of real-estate development located in downtown and the City of Hamilton.
skyscraperpage.com
CaptainBL
Active Member
What is your source for that? Edmonton's downtown office vacancy is 22%, second to only Calgary's (32%) with Toronto's at 11.4% compared to the national average at 16% as per the Q3 CBRE Canada Office Figures report. Even if you are looking at the market as a whole and not just the downtown market, Toronto's is not even close to approaching Edmonton's vacancy rate.