IanO
Senior Member
Puts it into perspective.
The Parks | 146.91m | 45s | 35s | 13s | Pangman | Hariri Pontarini
- Thread starter Daveography
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thommyjo
Senior Member
Could add city centre west into this likely. Not a surface lot, but equally as dead as.
TAS
Senior Member
Amazing how much of our downtown got bulldozed for the vehicle/parking - as noted above this doesn't include all the above ground parkades. Although we are making progress- prior to ice district and a few towers this would have been worse.
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The_Cat
Senior Member
At least there is an area with boundaries being 97 Street, 105 Street, Jasper and 104 Avenue that doesn't have a lot of surface parking. About 15 years ago there were probably a half dozen more spots inside this area, along with vacant buildings on Jasper.
dunno
Active Member
why is the part of the Warehouse Park west of 107 St labelled as a parking lot but the heart of the future park between 107 and 106 isn't? And many other lots are not labelled either. The problem is even worse than visualized here!
Vijay19
New Member
Oh man at the risk of sounding negative this is a real stark reminder how dismal downtown is. The amount of improvements in infrastructure (new sidewalks, trees, benches ect ect) it would take to attract private investment with any urgency is considerable. I think until that type of commitment is made by the city/province one off projects here and there is what we are going to continue to see. Other than 104 St and Rice Howard Way, downtown really looks run down and uninviting.
archited
Senior Member
What about the ICE District and the Civic Precinct and the Government area and the contiguous rim of the river valley -- not to sound too positive.
Munanyo
Active Member
Yeah downtown is still a jumbled mess full of promise and progress but my god is there a ton of work that still needs to go into it. I really wish the city made the Jasper Ave revitalization project more of a priority considering our Main Street is a patched up disaster right now.
What hurt downtown the most is Covid. There was actually some great momentum happening after the launch of Ice District and for the first time in decades people actually started to see some hope in the core. Then everything went to shit and everything turned 180 degrees in the wrong direction. Trying to get that momentum back is what can get the core back on track.
dunno
Active Member
Civic Precinct as in the Arts District? AGA has mediocre exhibits and is rather small as an art museum with divisive once-trendy-but-now-dated architecture, the south end has the heavily panned grey tank library, the west side is a dead mall that looks like a Cold War bunker. RAM is ok, Winspear and Citadel are good but not everyday places in general. Churchill is good when programming is there and City Hall is nice when the fountains/skating happen. I'd say it's got its highlights, and isn't terrible, but overall feels mediocre, especially when there isn't a festival to activate the area.
Government area is a bunch of stubby, cold modernist office blocks with terrible street presence producing mostly dead streets, a half-ripped up Legislature campus (I know, temporary), and many parking lots and questionable residential high-rises.
But you're right about the river valley.
David A
Senior Member
I realize we all have somewhat different perspectives. I have been here for decades and have seen times of lots of progress, times when not much happened and times when things got worse. There are diffent cycles and Covid definitely caused one of them. Unfortunately, we are still working through that.
I recall there being a lot more parking lots in the downtown core decades ago, now most of them have been filled. The area to the west of 105 St has not developed as much yet. However, historically it never was either part of the financial center or the residential area to the west. Some who have come here more recently might not completely get that.
A lot of the good development being done and done in the past was by local companies. They have an understanding of the local market, so I feel are more likely to be successful than some hot shots who come in with a lot of ideas and pizazz, but fizzle out later. So I don't think it is realistic to expect some big developer from out of town to transform things, but I realize there are both good and bad companies local and elsewhere.
occidentalcapital
Senior Member
MacEwan and environs also much different and redeveloped compared to the past.
thommyjo
Senior Member
I think the redo of stony plain road, instead of jasper ave, was one of the biggest shortsighted moves our city made. A wasted effort to revitalize that has mostly been torn up anyways because of the LRT. And even if the LRT hadn’t come for another decade (the excuse for why WEM transit centre was rebuilt and then demolished just years later…) jasper ave serves thousands of residents and tens of thousands of commuters and tourists. Stony plain is primary driven through and not lived on by many.
The city needs to double down on what’s good and working and should stop trying to use infrastructure to revitalize what’s far from resurrecting. (I.e. quarters getting a bunch of stuff while 104st looks dated and crumbling).
When you look at the price tags of some other projects as well (300mil for Lewis farms, 400mil for terwillegar, 200mil for 50st overpass), it’s hard to not ask why we aren’t dropping 100-200mil for rebuilding our downtown. All those other projects matter. But downtown still serves more people daily than any of those will. And few of those lead to high ROIs from outside capital, investment, tourism, private developments. Like no developer is greenlighting a new project because of terwillegar getting a new lane. But 400mil likely ignites a dozen new projects if used downtown in the right ways.
The city needs to double down on what’s good and working and should stop trying to use infrastructure to revitalize what’s far from resurrecting. (I.e. quarters getting a bunch of stuff while 104st looks dated and crumbling).
When you look at the price tags of some other projects as well (300mil for Lewis farms, 400mil for terwillegar, 200mil for 50st overpass), it’s hard to not ask why we aren’t dropping 100-200mil for rebuilding our downtown. All those other projects matter. But downtown still serves more people daily than any of those will. And few of those lead to high ROIs from outside capital, investment, tourism, private developments. Like no developer is greenlighting a new project because of terwillegar getting a new lane. But 400mil likely ignites a dozen new projects if used downtown in the right ways.
Munanyo
Active Member
I see your point. I've only lived in Edmonton full time for 6 years, which is not that long in the grand scheme of things. Seeing images of the past puts into perspective how much has been done and how far downtown has come, especially from the period of stagnation and neglect in the 90's and early 2000's. However, walking around the core you get a weird feeling of "modern, big city" then "run down, neglected and sad" with some "I see a lot of potential here, this could be a happening place soon".... which leads me to say downtown and surrounding area feels very disjointed and a bit of a mishmashed mess right now. Lots to celebrate, lots to criticize but there is a lot of hope and potential.
northlands
Senior Member
Calling the Stony Plain Rd revitalization shortsighted is easy to say now with the benefit of hindsight but I think it was the right move for the time (even if the execution of it was typical CoE). The VLW didn't commence construction until nearly a decade after the revitalization, and even then, the fate of the VLW was still precarious going into fall 2021 after the municipal election. When you're selecting projects for funding and priority years before, you certainly don't have the benefit of a crystal ball.
Stony Plain Rd at the time badly needed attention and some investment from the City. While the rest of the city in the early 2010s was really starting to gain momentum (esp Downtown and 118/Alberta Ave) SPR was struggling. What happens if the City let SPR continue to rot, and then no LRT ran down the road anyway, turning it into an equivalent to 118th in the early 00s? Would that not be considered shortsighted?
Overall, if you want to think of government spending in terms of pure economic ROI, obvious SPR revitalization was a rather poor choice and deep suburb rec centres and lane expansions are absolutely poor choices, but the CoE isn't an investment firm; their primary mandate is providing public services and infrastructure to their citizens. Starving those in other community areas of good infrastructure in a vain attempt to fill some gravel lots downtown isn't exactly fulfilling that mandate.
God
Active Member
Everyone here needs to quit bitchin. You’d think we’re workin with redeveloping Mumbai with the way some of you guys are talking. We went 8 years at one point with not a single tower built downtown. I think just right now there are 6 or 7 ongoing projects in the core. All covid did was put things on pause. There were no 180s done. No one is going backwards. Unless someone proposed to demolish ice district that I haven’t heard about? Or the valley line SE? I mean valley line west is being built out as we speak. Falcon has started, the parks has started, we’ve seen preliminary design for the warehouse park. Station lands kicked off, just a casual billion dollar plus investment being built in THE MOST needed revitalised area in the city. Oliver is looking more beautiful by the day. Station yards is in phase 2 with 3 new towers also being proposed around that area. I mean let’s take a look at ice district alone. The plaza just started being used last year with tenants moving in this past winter. The new fanpark? I mean how many events have they thrown this summer alone? Yes lots of things have been slowed down but we are definitely not moving backwards. I mean these are just the big investments being made. I’m not talking about all the infill going on in our outer core done by smaller mom and pop developers. Corner lots being developed into 3 or 4 townhomes is not a backwards move. Plenty of infill going on around China town, Belvedere, Westmount. City changing zoning bylaws in favour of infill development with 50% of all developments being within our ring road. The only thing we’ve gone backwards on is the revitalisation of the quarters. Other than that we’ve done pretty well considering all the economic bs going on in this country. That’s not counting plenty of development on the south side of the core, the 3 new towers proposed on the intersection of 103 Ave and 104st, or the new lrt bridge opening up. There’s plenty of projects like 101st tower and city centre mall renos that didn’t happen, but that just capitalism. Just cause something is proposed in the private sector doesn’t mean it happens. People pay for shit with money. Money might’ve been there at the start but after covid what can you do? Sometimes you can compromise like the old encore tower residential conversion and sometimes you gotta sell like 101st. It’s just how the world spins. Lots of y’all sit here and complain about lack of investment but what are you doing? Are you investing in our core? Half these people talking live and shop in the suburbs. You don’t even have to invest your money but most of you won’t even invest the time to pickup a piece of trash you see by the garbage someone dropped to make our streets cleaner. You just complain like a bunch of losers. Want more retail In the core? Do you even support what’s available there right now? Mic = dropped