Edmonton International Airport (EIA/YEG)

[David A]

I did read it and don't disagree with some potential for a logistics/cargo hub. The context of my original comment was related to passenger flights from the middle east.

It is possible that cargo hub may also lead to some additional international passenger service too, which would be great, but I am not expecting us to surpass Vancouver.

 

[CaptainBL]

Did you not read this article distance is not the issue.

The Cargo gateway to North America and beyond

Mammen Tharakan, Director, E-Commerce, Cargo & Aviation Real Estate, Air Service & Business Development, at Edmonton International Airport (YEG), provides his insight into evolving cargo growth at the airport, its role geographically as a logistics hub and the sustainable initiatives that are...

www.internationalairportreview.com

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, is the largest northernmost city in North America. Its strategic location is rapidly being recognised internationally as a key multimodal global logistics hub and vital trade corridor for Canada.

Edmonton International Airport (YEG) is one the closest major North American airports to many parts of Asia by circumpolar routes. Interestingly, the Edmonton to Beijing flight path is one the shortest of any major city in North America, and there is only about nine minutes difference in flight time from Edmonton to Hong Kong or Shanghai compared to Vancouver.

Why does any of that in bold matter? YEG management has been saying that for years and what has that gotten YEG? I dont see carriers lining up to shave 9 minutes off of flying to Vancouver from Asia just because YEG is 9 minutes closer.

Just because YEG management keeps perpetuating the same stat does not make it a strategic advantage if the carriers dont see it as a strategic advantage enough to change their habits. How do I presume its not a startegic advantage? There have been no carriers that have decided to take advantage of that 9 minute difference. The one and only, Air China from Shanghai to Dallas lasted all of a couple months before getting axed.

Heck, YEG cargo isnt even served by UPS or DHL, 2 of the largest 3 logistics companies in the world with operations at over 1,000 airports served across the globe.

 

[occidentalcapital]

Why does any of that in bold matter? YEG management has been saying that for years and what has that gotten YEG? I dont see carriers lining up to shave 9 minutes off of flying to Vancouver from Asia just because YEG is 9 minutes closer.

Just because YEG management keeps perpetuating the same stat does not make it a strategic advantage if the carriers dont see it as a strategic advantage enough to change their habits. How do I presume its not a startegic advantage? There have been no carriers that have decided to take advantage of that 9 minute difference. The one and only, Air China from Shanghai to Dallas lasted all of a couple months before getting axed.

Heck, YEG cargo isnt even served by UPS or DHL, 2 of the largest 3 logistics companies in the world with operations at over 1,000 airports served across the globe.

Huh? Have you just completely forgotten about how much cargo growth yeg has seen over the pay 5 years? Not to mention the big investments in logistics we're now seeing? These are not decisions taken lightly.

 

[CaptainBL]

Huh? Have you just completely forgotten about how much cargo growth yeg has seen over the pay 5 years? Not to mention the big investments in logistics we're now seeing? These are not decisions taken lightly.

Huh? Have you analyzed any of the statistics on YEG and other airports growth?

As per Stats Canada From 2017 to 2021 YEG's tonnage grew from 27,000 to 31,000. That is almost identical to the % growth and actually tonnage by Halifax, half the actual tonnage as Winnipeg, significantly less than Montreal's second airport Mirabel, and significantly less than Hamilton, Calgary and Vancouver.

And for the years where data is available, the international cargo tonnage for YEG is significantly less than Calgary's and Vancouver's.

So I will ask the question again that you avoided answering. Which carriers are lining up to save 9 minutes in travel time to Asia from YEG over YVR or YYC?

For your reference, the Stats Canada tonnage is here:

Add/Remove data - Air cargo traffic at Canadian airports, annual

Tonnes of cargo loaded and unloaded at Canadian airports, annual.

www150.statcan.gc.ca

Again, just because YEG management perpetuates "the closest airport to Asia" as a strategic advantage doesn't mean the market sees it that way. Otherwise I have some snow I can sell you.

 

[occidentalcapital]

Simply put location is hugely important in the cargo world.

Korean Air Cargo uses the polar routing from YEG at the moment.

Proximity to Asia along with the port of Prince Rupert, road and rail networks is Edmonton's cargo calling card. Not to recognize this is simply foolish and ignorant of our natural advantages.

In any event the airport received their hundred million grant last year for exactly the type of development you seem to want which is cargo, so again I don't really know what you're complaining about. YEG cargo development is on a big upswing, certainly more now than in any of the past 5 decades. On tonnage if i recall 2022 was quite strong yet again and leading most others in growth...

 

[CaptainBL]

Simply put location is hugely important in the cargo world.

Korean Air Cargo uses the polar routing from YEG at the moment.

Proximity to Asia along with the port of Prince Rupert, road and rail networks is Edmonton's cargo calling card. Not to recognize this is simply foolish and ignorant of our natural advantages.

In any event the airport received their hundred million grant last year for exactly the type of development you seem to want which is cargo, so again I don't really know what you're complaining about. YEG cargo development is on a big upswing, certainly more now than in any of the past 5 decades. On tonnage if i recall 2022 was quite strong yet again and leading most others in growth...

I must have missed the announcement by YEG that Korean and others now fly regularly scheduled flights to YEG because it is closer to Asia than YYC or YVR, which is driving cargo development to a "big upswing".

 

[David A]

I agree there is some potential here, but like others I am also aware this has been talked about for years and this potential has not yet been realized for whatever reasons.

 

[occidentalcapital]

I must have missed the announcement by YEG that Korean and others now fly regularly scheduled flights to YEG because it is closer to Asia than YYC or YVR, which is driving cargo development to a "big upswing".

They fly LAX-YEG-ANC- Korea so yes its the polar routing

Keep in mind also that the Russian conflict limits Canadian carriers from taking this route so some speed bumps there.

You play to your strengths.

YEG is now seeing multiple cargo widebodies every day which wasn't the case in the past. When passenger belly capacity comes back (as it already is) it will be telling whether these dedicated cargo aircraft continue or whether we revert. So far seem to be continuing.

The other point is the importance of real estate to cargo. You need the actual distribution centres, cold storage, cargo storage facilities to make cargo work. You can't just fly cargo airplanes, it all works together. We've seen a lot of industrial space absorption lately which bodes well for this.

 

[archited]

If (and that is the operative word)... if Edmonton can work out a growth-oriented cargo relationship with a burgeoning West Coast Port -- namely Prince Rupert/Port Edward -- and was able to combine their joint efforts with an inland distribution Hub which Edmonton is geographically well set up to be, then I could see Edmonton becoming a Distribution Centre that services all of western Canada and a sizable chunk of the western and mid-western U.S.
Several things are required to achieve that:
1. the political will to "get after it"... foremost relying on better cooperation between Federal, Provincial, and Municipal governments
2. alignment of aims with Prince Rupert
3. rail transit improvement through two mountain ranges -- those being the Coastal Range and the Rockies.
4. cooperative agreements between CN and CP
5. connective agreements between key cities -- Calgary, Winnipeg, Denver, Minneapolis, KC, and Chicago are among the most important, but smaller cities could assist too.
6. a sh**load of investment capital
Edmonton's advantages in line with achieving that goal include:
1. historical precedence as "Gateway to the North"
2. an extremely large (area wise) airport with lots of land for development of a transportation hub
3. the previously noted Geographical advantage for near straight-line connectivity to western and mid-western market centres
4. a competitive advantage over more constrained Ports that have nearly maxed out their growth potential
5. a willingness to support new transportation modes -- e.g. high-speed rail (no matter what form that may take)
6. a reverse load capability in (particularly) hydrogen and hydrogen industrial by-products that would be of interest to Eastern Markets... that plus Agricultural products (collected from the same hinterland that would be supply recipients) and Agricultural By-products.
7. a huge post-secondary infrastructure -- NAIT, UofA, MacEwan U, Concordia U, Athabasca U, NorQuest -- lots of bodies to develop a work base and extend employment in key fields.
8. low-cost labor market, excellent ElHi schools, relatively inexpensive housing, and a gloriously beautiful City that, too, has lots of room for growth.
The development of this Hub/Inland Port/Radial Network would also have extreme benefit for the City, the Province, and Canada. And I know there are some on this Skyrise Cities Site who can imagine and ideate lots of spin-off for this, covering or adding to points that I have overlooked.

 

[David A]

They fly LAX-YEG-ANC- Korea so yes its the polar routing

Keep in mind also that the Russian conflict limits Canadian carriers from taking this route so some speed bumps there.

You play to your strengths.

YEG is now seeing multiple cargo widebodies every day which wasn't the case in the past. When passenger belly capacity comes back (as it already is) it will be telling whether these dedicated cargo aircraft continue or whether we revert. So far seem to be continuing.

The other point is the importance of real estate to cargo. You need the actual distribution centres, cold storage, cargo storage facilities to make cargo work. You can't just fly cargo airplanes, it all works together. We've seen a lot of industrial space absorption lately which bodes well for this.

We already have LAX passenger flights, so I don't know if this would change much there. Perhaps there is the potential for new passenger flights to Korea eventually, presumably with a stop in Anchorage instead of Vancouver, which would be beneficial for us, if shorter.

In addition to the shorter routes, we have another important advantage which is more industrial space for distribution centres ..., which is a probably very constrained in Vancouver.

 

[TravellingChris]

We already have LAX passenger flights, so I don't know if this would change much there. Perhaps there is the potential for new passenger flights to Korea eventually, presumably with a stop in Anchorage instead of Vancouver, which would be beneficial for us, if shorter.

In addition to the shorter routes, we have another important advantage which is more industrial space for distribution centres ..., which is a probably very constrained in Vancouver.

I doubt we will ever see passenger flights between YEG and ICN. Korean tried it a number of years ago between YYC and ICN and couldn't make it work, despite promoting it as a Calgary/Banff service to take advantage of tourist traffic.

For a lot of Asia-Pacific airlines and cities, flights to and from YVR are considered sufficient to "serve" Western Canada.

 

[Glenco]

^Never say never that is a very long. With our present growth rate it could come as soon as 10 years or if our growth rate slows could take 20-30 years Interesting factoid if and that is a big if we had an Asian connection a traveller from eastern Canada would save 200km off their trip connecting through Edmonton rather the Vancouver.

 

[Windermere]

Korean Air Cargo does not regularly serve YEG. They stop here occasionally to pick up live horses - and there is a push to ban that.

 

[TravellingChris]

^Never say never that is a very long. With our present growth rate it could come as soon as 10 years or if our growth rate slows could take 20-30 years Interesting factoid if and that is a big if we had an Asian connection a traveller from eastern Canada would save 200km off their trip connecting through Edmonton rather the Vancouver.

Again, I doubt it would happen due to the failed Calgary precedent and the fact that most Asian carriers view their Vancouver flights as effectively covering the demand from Western Canada. Remember, airlines have a lot of competing priorities: weighing adding an additional destination or two in a country that the airline already feels it serves perfectly adequately through YVR, versus adding additional service to say, China or India. Aircraft and crews used on a theoretical Alberta route would be resources taken away from potential expansion in other, more lucrative markets.

 

[occidentalcapital]

I think the difference of opinion makes for a good discussion... things were getting a bit bland with everyone in agreement. But overall I think we shouldn't be excessively pessimistic. The cargo development announced last year and it's proposed construction this (?) year is concrete news and will result in a big change from status quo re cargo. I think we should be strongly encouraging YEG to build this as soon as possible.