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Edmonton City Centre Mall (Renovations) | ?m | 2s | LaSalle Investment Management

thommyjo said:
Toss 4 seniors residences on top of city centre and fix the safety issues nearby and that could be one of the best outcomes (alongside some facade/street level changes). One of the best value propositions for huge enclosed spaces, like people are saying, is winter shelter. The people that will value that the most are our elderly population, especially if they have mobility devices.

Get some good stores and “attractions” targeted towards seniors and families and I bet things get going.

CC cannot compete to become a classic cool/trendy/young mall. That ship has sailed. Meadowlark mall repurposed to a medical centre and more local grocery/retail. That was a good move. CC should position itself like a Florida retirement village. Pools, golf, nice “climate”, restaurants, spas. Be the best place in Edmonton to retire. Just my creative take Haha.
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Introduce pickleball like other malls have and it would be well received by seniors as part of active/social living. Game is growing in virtually every demographic though.
 
JuliallThat said:
In the long game, if City Centre does become a kitschy convenience mall for people living there, it presents more opportunities for weird unique stores and eateries that themselves could, in the long term, result in the mall becoming cool again. But they can't "force" it.
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If anything can be learned from the past few years, is that things can change unpredictably and suddenly. City Centre isn't Meadowark whose fate was sealed by a much bigger mall built nearby after, and it is not just older people who like a warm indoor space in winter. You see people of all ages at the various malls in Edmonton.

This mall's fortunes are more tied to the state of downtown and as that improves, it will also. The loss of the Bay hit very hard, but in the long run it may turn out to not be a bad thing as I see it as a declining chain. However, if that space can be filled with something viable that attracts people then the mall could be well on its way to revival. I do think the mall needs to be made less bunker like and interact more with the street, partly to take full advantage of the new LRT line right in front of it, which is finally running.

However, I really don't think this requires huge or expensive structural changes, but a few thoughtful smaller ones. The former Atmosphere/Sport Chek space is one spot to start with that and maybe the old Bay space too.
 
It would be nice to see Restoration Hardware leave Southgate and move into the former Holts. It could become the right anchor that this area desperately needs. RH operating under mall hours seems counterintuitive to their image and brand. Centrally located neighborhoods would benefit from RH being central, while giving the suburban crowd a reason to come downtown for a fun afternoon of exploring whatever else CityCenter or downtown has to offer.

Bringing in senior living to the former Bay would turn the area into a snooze fest, although I can see why it would be successful and attractive to do so with the pedways and indoor amenities. Younger energy should be the goal, with new highrises while street-facing retail/restaurants would help in bringing that area back to life. A dog groomer in the downtown core would be great too.

As for CityCenter - Vancouver has a Costco right downtown with underground parking and its one of the busiest locations I've seen. A Home Depot would also be a great addition for downtowns growing population. Trying to fill that mall with smaller tenants is going to be a slow and difficult process without bringing back big anchors to CC. I also love the IKEA City Store idea someone mentioned earlier.
 
dunno said:
providing other entertainment services beyond retail/food. The smartest malls are doing both.
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Latin America and Asia learned this AGES ago. Like, literal decades.
I dare you to to Brazil, Mexico or Chile and find a mall without AT LEAST a movie theatre, a kids playcentre, a central "plaza" with rotating activities and at least one additional entertainment service.

They also tend to offer services like medical, dental and day-to-day amenities and services, such as mail, pharmacy, clothes repairs, laundromat, etc. Essentially, if you live near a mall, you can do everything you need on your daily life there, usually well connected by transit. That's 15-minute cities for you, before it was trendy.

Time and time again, I'll point out that we love to talk about North America and Europe (sometimes very select parts of Asia) as the only possible models, and particularly Europe as a standard to be strived, but IMHO, we have way more to learn from countries like Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia, etc. than people in North America usually care to admit.

I would honestly love to see what the kind of financial resources we have available here could to in these places.
 
I think this mall actually has most of the services you listed, except kids play centre and laundromat, including being well connected by transit and movie theatres.

However, like anything in the core, it struggles with the overwhelming suburban mentality and focus here. I am surprised some place like Planet Fitness hasn't already snapped up the existing really ready to go gym space yet, but perhaps that will happen as things continue to recover. The mall does need to start to fill some of the bigger spaces and that is one of them. There also needs to be more men's clothing options in the mall, that is a huge gap currently. Something like Eddie Bauer or Simons that caters fairly well to both upscale and a broader market would be nice. Part or all of the old Sport Chek space could work for either. Part of the old Bay space could also work for Simons.

Restoration Hardware at Southgate seemed so dead when I went by there last week. Its a busy mall, but I think really 98% of the people just walk by it and I am thinking the rent on that space must be a lot. So they might actually do better downtown.

I really don't see Costco or Home Depot abandoning their big box power centre format here given the abundance of suburban land and parking, but it would be nice to see something downtown that carries a decent selection of basic hardware, so people in the core don't have to drive a long ways to get everything. I feel unfortunately Home Hardware has an aversion to more urban places, but something like that would actually be good.
 
ChazYEG said:
Latin America and Asia learned this AGES ago. Like, literal decades.
I dare you to to Brazil, Mexico or Chile and find a mall without AT LEAST a movie theatre, a kids playcentre, a central "plaza" with rotating activities and at least one additional entertainment service.

They also tend to offer services like medical, dental and day-to-day amenities and services, such as mail, pharmacy, clothes repairs, laundromat, etc. Essentially, if you live near a mall, you can do everything you need on your daily life there, usually well connected by transit. That's 15-minute cities for you, before it was trendy.

Time and time again, I'll point out that we love to talk about North America and Europe (sometimes very select parts of Asia) as the only possible models, and particularly Europe as a standard to be strived, but IMHO, we have way more to learn from countries like Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia, etc. than people in North America usually care to admit.

I would honestly love to see what the kind of financial resources we have available here could to in these places.
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I mean, Edmonton was basically the blueprint for entertainment-centric malls with WEM. It was the original megamall and really the first time you had an assortment of non-retail and food court options in a vast array. Didn't quite take hold to the same degree at other malls in Edmonton or much of Canada, funnily enough, but yeah. In this case, Edmonton could learn from Edmonton, as WEM remains pretty successful.

One thing I find interesting is that WEM is the only mall with a movie theatre in the city aside from City Centre. But many of them used to. IIRC Calgary is like this too. But lots of cities in the US and even in Canada have them. It's such a no brainer. Unfortunately, Landmark and Cineplex have largely prioritized big box style ones with the new theatres of the past decade plus. So a theatre at Londonderry again would stomp on Landmark's Manning location. A theatre at Mill Woods would compete with either Landmark Tamarack or Cineplex South Common. Etc.

That being said, I agree Latin America is very overlooked for these sorts of things, which I think ultimately boils down to people's negative biases and ignorance about the region in North America. But there's much to learn!
 
ECC started with 4 stories (including basement), is now still 2 1/2 ish stories on 2 blocks, will need to continue to downsize and repurpose. West side needs to be redeveloped into residential with future smaller retail options. Will continue to have services for Downtown office and residents but reimagined with investment could be a bit more and have some clothing/lifestyle options. Manulife is unlikely to have much retail at all. We just have too much square footage for the demand, and ICE added about 200,000 sq. ft., Brewery another 300,000 sq ft. Oliver is downtown for most retailers.
 
husky said:
I wonder if something like Jubilations dinner theatre would work out of downtown.
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It is an interesting idea. There are a lots of restaurants downtown, but this could be something unique that could attract a different crowd.

It might be a good way to bring some people downtown on nights that don't have big events like concerts or hockey games.

As always, parking could be an issue but it might not be hard to include a few hours parking in a nearby parkade with the ticket price.
 
David A said:
It is an interesting idea. There are a lots of restaurants downtown, but this could be something unique that could attract a different crowd.

It might be a good way to bring some people downtown on nights that don't have big events like concerts or hockey games.

As always, parking could be an issue but it might not be hard to include a few hours parking in a nearby parkade with the ticket price.
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Yeah, only challenge would be that their main demo is the people most stereotypically anti downtown cause of NO PARKING and ZOMBIES.

But I do like the niche.
 
Greenspace said:
ECC started with 4 stories (including basement), is now still 2 1/2 ish stories on 2 blocks, will need to continue to downsize and repurpose. West side needs to be redeveloped into residential with future smaller retail options. Will continue to have services for Downtown office and residents but reimagined with investment could be a bit more and have some clothing/lifestyle options. Manulife is unlikely to have much retail at all. We just have too much square footage for the demand, and ICE added about 200,000 sq. ft., Brewery another 300,000 sq ft. Oliver is downtown for most retailers.
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Outside of the hotel, Ice District currently only has one sit down restaurant, two fast food places, a retail clothing store and nothing in the Stantec food court area except for a small coffee cart on the main level, so its not like much has moved there from City Centre or even competes with it. I don't think anything has relocated to Brewery District either from the mall or Manulife.

The population of Edmonton has more than doubled since the mall was built so the addition of square footage elsewhere somewhat reflects that. There has particularly been a fair amount of new residential development north and west of the Brewery District and I think these are the customers primarily targeted by it.
 
So many ideas for ECC, and for Manulife Place for that matter:
- dinner theatre
- bowling alley
- expanded Landmark Theatre plus IMAX
- street level food hall
- street level pubs
- at least 1 nightclub
- billiards club to replace the Metro
- comedy club
- fitness facilities (again reiterating Planet Fitness in the Sport Chek space)
- high rise residential living (for all ages, not just seniors)
- expanded Delta Hotel
- casino
- medical/dental
- urban hardware store
- menswear store
- record store
- comics/gaming store
- bookstore
- shoe shine booth
- Simons
 
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