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Edmonton City Centre Mall (Renovations) | ?m | 2s | LaSalle Investment Management

I think it already is changing. With the Gap and the most of the popular suburban chains gone, there are some unique, smaller local stores coming in.

However, I don't think it will Yorkdale. I went to Southgate recently and noticed how upscale it has become. I remember years ago it was more a mall for the average shopper. Now it is more like Yorkdale.

On the other hand, I feel City Centre could look at the Well and get some ideas both for now and the future but I don't see the demand for residential development around City Centre right now.
 
The thing with the Well is that while I can sort of see how it'd work in Toronto, I think a development like that would have a tougher go in Edmonton due to our climate. I know we're experiencing a very mild winter and it's likely to continue being more like this, but it does technically still tend to get cold here for large stretches of the year and I can't see that being good for business. Not because it's too cold to be outside (it's rarely that) but because, despite being a winter city, people don't know how to dress for it and wind up complaining about how cold it is because they haven't acclimated to it. And it's definitely not fun even if you are properly bundled up having to bundle down and then back up constantly popping in and out of little stores. The enclosed mall is still popular in northern climates for a reason and it makes a lot of sense. They could be better designed for sure but they aren't the worst idea for a place like Edmonton. The only reason why the preferred outward orientation of the big box centre works is because people aren't walking between stores, they're driving, and the stores are often so big that they spend a while in them anyway. But any sort of purely outside walking retail environment is very dependent on weather for half the year (well and even in the warmer months, it can be too hot, or raining).
 
Yes, there is a reason this was one of the earlier cities to get enclosed malls and we still have one of the bigger ones around. Partly because of colder weather, people here become used to not walking around for a good portion of the year. But it can become as much from habit as comfort related. I am not a fan of the power centres with their huge parking lots that oddly still often seem fairly full and hard to find spaces.

If you are dressed properly you can walk outside fairly comfortably at our normal winter temperatures (which are not often -30 or - 40, which some people from the centre of the universe or elsewhere seem to incorrectly believe). We are not a windy city, but downtown with the various building it can be windier or shadier in a number of spots and that can make it feel colder.

However, I do feel the mall should be less of a bunker and interact a bit more with the street to better suit that it is not in a suburban area, but in what could be a more walkable downtown area. It could be a better combination of both indoor and outdoor access, indoor and outdoor facing space. It probably would actually not be that difficult or expensive to do by just replacing some of the street facing windows with doors directly to retail spaces.
 
dunno said:
The thing with the Well is that while I can sort of see how it'd work in Toronto, I think a development like that would have a tougher go in Edmonton due to our climate. I know we're experiencing a very mild winter and it's likely to continue being more like this, but it does technically still tend to get cold here for large stretches of the year and I can't see that being good for business. Not because it's too cold to be outside (it's rarely that) but because, despite being a winter city, people don't know how to dress for it and wind up complaining about how cold it is because they haven't acclimated to it. And it's definitely not fun even if you are properly bundled up having to bundle down and then back up constantly popping in and out of little stores. The enclosed mall is still popular in northern climates for a reason and it makes a lot of sense. They could be better designed for sure but they aren't the worst idea for a place like Edmonton. The only reason why the preferred outward orientation of the big box centre works is because people aren't walking between stores, they're driving, and the stores are often so big that they spend a while in them anyway. But any sort of purely outside walking retail environment is very dependent on weather for half the year (well and even in the warmer months, it can be too hot, or raining).
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Aside from the outdoor experience at The Well, the other point in the video was that a mall, whether indoor or outdoor, needs to provide a greater experience than just shopping at the Gap or having a food court. What can that experience be for our downtown indoor mall? From that perspective our mall is virtually a blank slate.

All that said, any retail for a downtown like ours that is without some standard fare would be welcome and a positive experience in and of itself.
 
TAS said:
Aside from the outdoor experience at The Well, the other point in the video was that a mall, whether indoor or outdoor, needs to provide a greater experience than just shopping at the Gap or having a food court. What can that experience be for our downtown indoor mall? From that perspective our mall is virtually a blank slate.

All that said, any retail for a downtown like ours that is without some standard fare would be welcome and a positive experience in and of itself.
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I agree. The best malls these days are either going upscale or providing other entertainment services beyond retail/food. The smartest malls are doing both.

City Centre as is could be repurposed but I also can see it being demolished and rebuilt for the 21st century. I just don't know if it is desirable beyond the food court for potential tenants with a much bigger, better regular mall 10 blocks away. I do think something like Rec Room, maybe having a Bourbon St-esque restaurant row, and focusing on large stores that are lacking in the core that existing residents would benefit from (Home Hardware, Canadian Tire, Best Buy if they leave 104 Ave, H Mart, Staples, Simons if not for the WEM exclusion zone, Petsmart, Chapters).

It's a tough situation because somebody needs to be willing to take a risk on the property and there are a lot of cards stacked against the mall. The Bay and Sportchek leaving really doesn't encourage investment. Maybe if only one left and the rest of the mall was full of attractive tenants it would be more of an opportunity as businesses would see the viability of the mall. But the mall doesn't read as viable now. This part, in the darkest period, is the hardest to get out of and gain momentum again.
 
Toss 4 seniors residences on top of city centre and fix the safety issues nearby and that could be one of the best outcomes (alongside some facade/street level changes). One of the best value propositions for huge enclosed spaces, like people are saying, is winter shelter. The people that will value that the most are our elderly population, especially if they have mobility devices.

Get some good stores and “attractions” targeted towards seniors and families and I bet things get going.

CC cannot compete to become a classic cool/trendy/young mall. That ship has sailed. Meadowlark mall repurposed to a medical centre and more local grocery/retail. That was a good move. CC should position itself like a Florida retirement village. Pools, golf, nice “climate”, restaurants, spas. Be the best place in Edmonton to retire. Just my creative take Haha.
 
thommyjo said:
Toss 4 seniors residences on top of city centre and fix the safety issues nearby and that could be one of the best outcomes (alongside some facade/street level changes). One of the best value propositions for huge enclosed spaces, like people are saying, is winter shelter. The people that will value that the most are our elderly population, especially if they have mobility devices.

Get some good stores and “attractions” targeted towards seniors and families and I bet things get going.

CC cannot compete to become a classic cool/trendy/young mall. That ship has sailed. Meadowlark mall repurposed to a medical centre and more local grocery/retail. That was a good move. CC should position itself like a Florida retirement village. Pools, golf, nice “climate”, restaurants, spas. Be the best place in Edmonton to retire. Just my creative take Haha.
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In the long game, if City Centre does become a kitschy convenience mall for people living there, it presents more opportunities for weird unique stores and eateries that themselves could, in the long term, result in the mall becoming cool again. But they can't "force" it.
 
thommyjo said:
Toss 4 seniors residences on top of city centre and fix the safety issues nearby and that could be one of the best outcomes (alongside some facade/street level changes). One of the best value propositions for huge enclosed spaces, like people are saying, is winter shelter. The people that will value that the most are our elderly population, especially if they have mobility devices.

Get some good stores and “attractions” targeted towards seniors and families and I bet things get going.

CC cannot compete to become a classic cool/trendy/young mall. That ship has sailed. Meadowlark mall repurposed to a medical centre and more local grocery/retail. That was a good move. CC should position itself like a Florida retirement village. Pools, golf, nice “climate”, restaurants, spas. Be the best place in Edmonton to retire. Just my creative take Haha.
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Introduce pickleball like other malls have and it would be well received by seniors as part of active/social living. Game is growing in virtually every demographic though.
 
JuliallThat said:
In the long game, if City Centre does become a kitschy convenience mall for people living there, it presents more opportunities for weird unique stores and eateries that themselves could, in the long term, result in the mall becoming cool again. But they can't "force" it.
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If anything can be learned from the past few years, is that things can change unpredictably and suddenly. City Centre isn't Meadowark whose fate was sealed by a much bigger mall built nearby after, and it is not just older people who like a warm indoor space in winter. You see people of all ages at the various malls in Edmonton.

This mall's fortunes are more tied to the state of downtown and as that improves, it will also. The loss of the Bay hit very hard, but in the long run it may turn out to not be a bad thing as I see it as a declining chain. However, if that space can be filled with something viable that attracts people then the mall could be well on its way to revival. I do think the mall needs to be made less bunker like and interact more with the street, partly to take full advantage of the new LRT line right in front of it, which is finally running.

However, I really don't think this requires huge or expensive structural changes, but a few thoughtful smaller ones. The former Atmosphere/Sport Chek space is one spot to start with that and maybe the old Bay space too.
 
It would be nice to see Restoration Hardware leave Southgate and move into the former Holts. It could become the right anchor that this area desperately needs. RH operating under mall hours seems counterintuitive to their image and brand. Centrally located neighborhoods would benefit from RH being central, while giving the suburban crowd a reason to come downtown for a fun afternoon of exploring whatever else CityCenter or downtown has to offer.

Bringing in senior living to the former Bay would turn the area into a snooze fest, although I can see why it would be successful and attractive to do so with the pedways and indoor amenities. Younger energy should be the goal, with new highrises while street-facing retail/restaurants would help in bringing that area back to life. A dog groomer in the downtown core would be great too.

As for CityCenter - Vancouver has a Costco right downtown with underground parking and its one of the busiest locations I've seen. A Home Depot would also be a great addition for downtowns growing population. Trying to fill that mall with smaller tenants is going to be a slow and difficult process without bringing back big anchors to CC. I also love the IKEA City Store idea someone mentioned earlier.
 
dunno said:
providing other entertainment services beyond retail/food. The smartest malls are doing both.
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Latin America and Asia learned this AGES ago. Like, literal decades.
I dare you to to Brazil, Mexico or Chile and find a mall without AT LEAST a movie theatre, a kids playcentre, a central "plaza" with rotating activities and at least one additional entertainment service.

They also tend to offer services like medical, dental and day-to-day amenities and services, such as mail, pharmacy, clothes repairs, laundromat, etc. Essentially, if you live near a mall, you can do everything you need on your daily life there, usually well connected by transit. That's 15-minute cities for you, before it was trendy.

Time and time again, I'll point out that we love to talk about North America and Europe (sometimes very select parts of Asia) as the only possible models, and particularly Europe as a standard to be strived, but IMHO, we have way more to learn from countries like Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia, etc. than people in North America usually care to admit.

I would honestly love to see what the kind of financial resources we have available here could to in these places.
 
I think this mall actually has most of the services you listed, except kids play centre and laundromat, including being well connected by transit and movie theatres.

However, like anything in the core, it struggles with the overwhelming suburban mentality and focus here. I am surprised some place like Planet Fitness hasn't already snapped up the existing really ready to go gym space yet, but perhaps that will happen as things continue to recover. The mall does need to start to fill some of the bigger spaces and that is one of them. There also needs to be more men's clothing options in the mall, that is a huge gap currently. Something like Eddie Bauer or Simons that caters fairly well to both upscale and a broader market would be nice. Part or all of the old Sport Chek space could work for either. Part of the old Bay space could also work for Simons.

Restoration Hardware at Southgate seemed so dead when I went by there last week. Its a busy mall, but I think really 98% of the people just walk by it and I am thinking the rent on that space must be a lot. So they might actually do better downtown.

I really don't see Costco or Home Depot abandoning their big box power centre format here given the abundance of suburban land and parking, but it would be nice to see something downtown that carries a decent selection of basic hardware, so people in the core don't have to drive a long ways to get everything. I feel unfortunately Home Hardware has an aversion to more urban places, but something like that would actually be good.
 
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