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Downtown
- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
Platinum107
Senior Member
Good comment. I obviously agree that, somehow, the societal issue of poverty and the effects of it that lead people astray need to be fixed. Do I know exactly how? No, and people who work with the issue or have been in poverty themselves have a voice much more powerful than mine on the actions needed. The question on my end is: why can't we do both? Why can't we amend the deeper issue on one end while tackling the symptoms of it like graffiti on the other (in a way less aggressive than more policing)?
kcantor
Senior Member
^. ^^
simply cleaning it up asap is a parallel measure to addressing the “underlying issues”. increased policing - if it is community based and not a revolving door in and out of the justice system - is another tool. increased fines for those who can least afford them at any level is pointless.
simply cleaning it up asap is a parallel measure to addressing the “underlying issues”. increased policing - if it is community based and not a revolving door in and out of the justice system - is another tool. increased fines for those who can least afford them at any level is pointless.
dunno
Active Member
Because, when you get down to it, graffiti as a public nuisance comes down to preference. Why is a mural put up across the street from the Old Strathcona Farmers Market the stuff of praise and some unknown graffiti in Oliver needing immediate assistance for removal? Hell, the aesthetics of graffiti have now become fetishized by wealthier classes themselves as some sort of ‘authentic expression’, or worse, ‘character’. It ultimately comes down to taste and preference. So the question really is why should your aesthetic preferences take precedence over more pressing concerns?
Platinum107
Senior Member
You know there's an objective difference between commissioned public artwork & murals that take hours and hours of time and effort by multiple people to create vs. tagging, scribbling or etching random symbols and obscenities on a power box or bathroom stall.
archited
Senior Member
I think a few Jackson Pollock reproductions on infrastructure would do the trick -- Graffiti would then become indistinguishable from subject matter and taggers would just give up in vain. Either that or a "where's Waldo" puzzle -- different sensibility, same effect. Or another trick -- OpArt that would mesmerize the tagger making him/her think that he/she has finished before he/she has even begun.
TAS
Senior Member
Agreed. But I do like the idea of community service. I was recently volunteering at the Food Bank and a guy on my crew was there doing community service. I'd rather someone spend time, which they have, contributing to the community as 'retribution'.
kcantor
Senior Member
well then, when you get right down to it, when you publish your address and promise to leave your doors unlocked so anyone with a spray can of paint can decorate your house inside and out including your furniture to their taste and not yours, i'll accept your "graffiti comes down to preference" statement.
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dunno
Active Member
And yet... the aesthetic produced by “etching random symbols” is something that many more upwardly mobile classes will fancy for “character” or whatever. It even became a popular thing to do originally at Remedy locations. And you’re not really interacting with my main point — with limited resources and priorities, why should sanitizing the city so you personally feel like it looks better for whatever reason is a better use of resources and priorities than something that actually helps communities that are marginalized and utilizing graffiti? Also, like @archited alludes to, there is a history of well-regarded, fine art doing things that, when you get down to it, is just scribbling. But one’s called the automatic process and the other is called an obscenity.
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dunno
Active Member
what? This post has a nonsense argument.
kcantor
Senior Member
so what you really mean is it’s okay if that graffiti is on someone else’s property and not your own?
dunno
Active Member
no, and don’t put words in my mouth, thanks! your proposition was utterly ridiculous.
however i’m also not going to call the police if i get vandalized. you can twist that however you’d like, but my point remains that there are more pressing concerns than graffiti. namely, the reasons why it and other broken windows-like behaviours are occurring. people are quick to whine about the city not doing anything about it and push for calling 311 but aren’t so quick to actually do something that benefits marginalized people. it’s all about attracting investment and business, and not caring about communities that already exist if they are below a certain income level and therefore disconnected from the business community.
kcantor
Senior Member
i didn’t put words in your mouth although you seem happy to. you seem quite willing to tell me what i do and don’t care about. some of us are capable of caring about more than one thing at a time and to support efforts and take action on more than one level at the same time. have a nice evening.
dunno
Active Member
Nowhere have I put words in your mouth, but ok, continue to make accusations. I have also not stated anywhere that you or anybody are incapable of having multiple concerns. I came into this thread to specify there are more important things to deal with than some graffiti and then critiqued former DBA head with some questionable opinions on broken windows theory, something that has been widely panned in academic circles. You’ve then shifted things around, accusing me of things, making ridiculous propositions, and condescended to me.
Anyways, bye!
(Edit: also we were talking about graffiti in public places (Ezio Faraone Park and the High Level Bridge, not people’s personal homes)
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archited
Senior Member
Don't fight guys... everyone's opinion is valid and because we are relying on the written word it is easy to go off the rails -- withdraw accusations and try to understand opposing viewpoints.