LRT Safety

[thommyjo]

Calgary system does not lend it self to fare gates at all. All of Edmonton’s downtown station, University and Clareview are compatible. Others would need modifications such as Century park but that could be done by doubling up the footbridge. All future stations should be designed for gates. As long as all the major destinations are controlled the majority or fare evaders will be eliminated.

In the underground stations with pedways, where do you see fare gates being installed? Many of the problems are in the stairwells up and down from stations. Might help the train itself be a bit safer, but then you still have to step over someone doing meth in a stairwell?

 

[The_Cat]

I wonder if there’s a way to improve sight lines as you enter the stations. Has the Stadium Station improved since it was fixed up?

 

[David A]

In the underground stations with pedways, where do you see fare gates being installed? Many of the problems are in the stairwells up and down from stations. Might help the train itself be a bit safer, but then you still have to step over someone doing meth in a stairwell?

I am surprised the police, security or the sherrifs don't regularly go there - you know as part of a regular patrol. I find it hard to believe they are that oblivious to the obvious problems.

 

[Glenco]

In the underground stations with pedways, where do you see fare gates being installed? Many of the problems are in the stairwells up and down from stations. Might help the train itself be a bit safer, but then you still have to step over someone doing meth in a stairwell?

That is a separate issue fare gates are not a silver bullet. They will not prevent drugs or weapons on the LRT without a cavity search or a metal detector but they will reduce the frequency substantially. The increased revenue from the fare evaders and potential increase passenger loads will more than pay for security in strategic locations instead of every where. The downtown stations were originally designed for proof of payment with fare kiosks at the entrances to the platforms.

 

[TravellingChris]

That is a separate issue fare gates are not a silver bullet. They will not prevent drugs or weapons on the LRT without a cavity search or a metal detector but they will reduce the frequency substantially. The increased revenue from the fare evaders and potential increase passenger loads will more than pay for security in strategic locations instead of every where. The downtown stations were originally designed for proof of payment with fare kiosks at the entrances to the platforms.

Calgary looked into fare gates and closing the system to non-riders and the evidence seems to suggest that it is nowhere near worthwhile. Apparently YYC's fare compliance is 97% and the gates would add little to no value while requiring massive renovations to stations.

Closed Calgary transit system not feasible, more safety personnel prescribed says report

City of Calgary administration said a closed transit system is entirely infeasible, in a report coming to a city committee next week. The admin report coming to the Infrastructure and …

livewirecalgary.com

 

[soupcrate]

Calgary looked into fare gates and closing the system to non-riders and the evidence seems to suggest that it is nowhere near worthwhile. Apparently YYC's fare compliance is 97% and the gates would add little to no value while requiring massive renovations to stations.

Closed Calgary transit system not feasible, more safety personnel prescribed says report

City of Calgary administration said a closed transit system is entirely infeasible, in a report coming to a city committee next week. The admin report coming to the Infrastructure and …

livewirecalgary.com

I do not believe 97% fare compliance is legit. There must be a measurement issue.

 

[Glenco]

Calgary looked into fare gates and closing the system to non-riders and the evidence seems to suggest that it is nowhere near worthwhile. Apparently YYC's fare compliance is 97% and the gates would add little to no value while requiring massive renovations to stations.

Closed Calgary transit system not feasible, more safety personnel prescribed says report

City of Calgary administration said a closed transit system is entirely infeasible, in a report coming to a city committee next week. The admin report coming to the Infrastructure and …

livewirecalgary.com

As I have pointed out before more than once Calgary’s system was never designed for fare gates and the cost to install them would be eye watering. There is no comparison. Besides how do they know fare compliance is 97% bureaucrats are notorious for pulling out any stat that helps their narrative.

 

[TravellingChris]

As I have pointed out before more than once Calgary’s system was never designed for fare gates and the cost to install them would be eye watering. There is no comparison. Besides how do they know fare compliance is 97% bureaucrats are notorious for pulling out any stat that helps their narrative.

The main challenge in Calgary would probably be the stations along 7 Avenue in the downtown core. Due to the design of the line in that area any gates would be easy to bypass in order to access the platform. Whereas some of the stations that are located in medians of busy roadways could install fare gates and enclose the station much more easily. The problem is that one weak access point (in this case the downtown stations) renders the entire system easily penetrable by undesirables.

In Edmonton the challenge would be some of the surface stations like South Campus and Health Sciences where there is at least one ground-level access point to the platform.

Of course the Valley Line (with the exception of Davies, Misericordia and WEM stations) will be completely wide open and access impossible to control.

 

[David A]

Its probably not that hard to put up a fence or something to control access even in the more open stations.

It might come to that anyways for safety reasons as well as fare control, you don't want people hanging out or running across the tracks anywhere, anytime, uncontrolled. We have already had an issue or two with the Valley Line and it is not even fully up and running yet.

 

[Glenco]

The main challenge in Calgary would probably be the stations along 7 Avenue in the downtown core. Due to the design of the line in that area any gates would be easy to bypass in order to access the platform. Whereas some of the stations that are located in medians of busy roadways could install fare gates and enclose the station much more easily. The problem is that one weak access point (in this case the downtown stations) renders the entire system easily penetrable by undesirables.

In Edmonton the challenge would be some of the surface stations like South Campus and Health Sciences where there is at least one ground-level access point to the platform.

Of course the Valley Line (with the exception of Davies, Misericordia and WEM stations) will be completely wide open and access impossible to control.

Hiring more people is probably the best option for C that doesn’t mean it is the best option for us As I have mentioned before we don’t need fare gates at every station only those that are the primary destinations then deploy security to problem areas. Other stations can be converted to gates as needed or deemed to be high problem ares.
As a point of interest not every London Underground station has fare gates but if you forget to tap in they assume you can the furthest distance and charge accordingly when you go through the gate at the other end.
You are correct fare gates won’t work on The Valley line doesn’t mean they can’t be used on the Capital line

 

[thommyjo]

Hiring more people is probably the best option for C that doesn’t mean it is the best option for us As I have mentioned before we don’t need fare gates at every station only those that are the primary destinations then deploy security to problem areas. Other stations can be converted to gates as needed or deemed to be high problem ares.
As a point of interest not every London Underground station has fare gates but if you forget to tap in they assume you can the furthest distance and charge accordingly when you go through the gate at the other end.
You are correct fare gates won’t work on The Valley line doesn’t mean they can’t be used on the Capital line

Unless we do fair gates on the entire pedway system though, this won’t do anything about the entrances and hallways to many stations that are the actual problem. Might help on-train safety. But if your transit experience still involves see people using drugs and being violent, whether on the train or in a pedway/stairwell leaving the train, I think you’re equally afraid.

Maybe fare gates are part of the solution. But I don’t see that being the case without station redesigns. We need other solutions.

 

[TAS]

I don't have hard numbers, but at Council meeting today it was reported that all modes of public transportation usage are up 20 to 25% over last year at this time and this past week bus numbers are at 106% of where they are normally - a general reflection of improved safety.

As an aside, it was also reported there are more downtown public events going on in 2023 compared to pre pandemic levels (ice district helping with that and Churchill has been pretty busy).
As well, downtown stakeholders are reporting a better, cleaner environment.

 

[fromyeg]

I don't have hard numbers, but at Council meeting today it was reported that all modes of public transportation usage are up 20 to 25% over last year at this time and this past week bus numbers are at 106% of where they are normally - a general reflection of improved safety.

As an aside, it was also reported there are more downtown public events going on in 2023 compared to pre pandemic levels (ice district helping with that and Churchill has been pretty busy).
As well, downtown stakeholders are reporting a better, cleaner environment.

Always nice to read some positive news. Thanks!

 

[Gronk!]

The struggle continues...

Edmonton senior waits nearly 30 minutes for help after assault on bus - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

Edmonton's transit union boss said a longer-than ideal response time following an attack on a bus could be because all other emergency responders were tied up at the time.

globalnews.ca

 

[Glenco]

So when are people going to get used to this new AHD thingy and stop running into it.

Semi collision damages Whitemud overpass at southeast Edmonton Henday interchange - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

Parts of the Anthony Henday Drive interchange will remain closed for the foreseeable future, police and the province said, including the eastbound Whitemud Drive bridge.

globalnews.ca