LRT Safety

[TAS]

Our city administration has reported these same findings to our council that this report going to Calgary's council does:

"There is no correlation between the provision of fare gates and increased transit safety on existing systems with fare gates,” it reads.

“Other transit agencies with fare gates experienced increased safety-related incidents throughout the pandemic and increased complexity with intersecting societal considerations impacting public transit.”

City report says closed transit system would not improve safety

The report says a fully closed system in Calgary is “not feasible” due to the way certain stations are integrated into the community.

www.google.com

 

[thommyjo]

Our city administration has reported these same findings to our council that this report going to Calgary's council does:

"There is no correlation between the provision of fare gates and increased transit safety on existing systems with fare gates,” it reads.

“Other transit agencies with fare gates experienced increased safety-related incidents throughout the pandemic and increased complexity with intersecting societal considerations impacting public transit.”

City report says closed transit system would not improve safety

The report says a fully closed system in Calgary is “not feasible” due to the way certain stations are integrated into the community.

www.google.com

The feasibility of install is a real problem for Edmonton. But it is true as well I think that Vancouver has found some success in using fare gates. It’s too late for us to try to fix our system though to make that an option without insane costs and come stations getting almost full rebuilds though. And the new valley lines won’t have a way to be gated either. Cleaning, enforcement, and zero tolerance has to be the solution. And of course all the other tools needed for the drug crisis and mental health challenges we’re seeing get worse. I think for Vancouver, it’s less about fare gates and more about the quality of station designs, the busyness of stations, and the view of the skytrain as essential.

 

[Garneau2Go]

I'm not convinced that turnstiles are a solution either. When I was in London, tube stations had attendants at the turnstiles, and I think without them people are going to just jump over the barricades.

Monitored CCTV plus peace officers is the way to go I think. Dispatch, connect to resources, and move people along if need be.

 

[archited]

Studies suggest that well monitored entries to (particularly) subway stations improves safety and therefore usage. When the sensibility vis-a-vis ride ability improves, ridership goes way up.

 

[Edmcowboy11]

In an effort for safety and to help create more jobs for Edmontonians they could add 1 station custodian and 1 station officer per LRT station. The custodian primarily is the to keep the station clean at all times, but also is a pair of eyes always at the station. If something needs to be done this is where the station officer will deal with the issue during his/her rounds of the station.
Don't know if this would help security a ton but it couldn't hurt.

 

[EdwardEdm]

St. Louis is installing fare gates at their 38 LRT station at a cost of $52 million.
However, they are doing this despite being told it won't help:
"The move came even though its security consultant recommended against turnstiles, concluding that fare evasion had little correlation with more serious crime.

A few sources:

Bi-State signs off on design deal for MetroLink safety changes

Criminal activity on MetroLink property has hurt ridership.

spectrumlocalnews.com

StackPath

Kansas City-based firm recommended to design MetroLink fare collection gates

Kansas City-based HNTB, the only firm to submit a bid to design the new MetroLink fare collection gates, would be paid $6.9 million under a proposal submitted by Metro Transit

www.stltoday.com

 

[Glenco]

I'm not convinced that turnstiles are a solution either. When I was in London, tube stations had attendants at the turnstiles, and I think without them people are going to just jump over the barricades.

Monitored CCTV plus peace officers is the way to go I think. Dispatch, connect to resources, and move people along if need be.

Attendants in London are there to help keep the flow of traffic moving because of the sheer volume of people going through. Not all stations have attendants and not all the time.

 

[Glenco]

Studies suggest that well monitored entries to (particularly) subway stations improves safety and therefore usage. When the sensibility vis-a-vis ride ability improves, ridership goes way up.

Why does it have to be one other? Turn stiles will pay for themselves catching fare evaders and offset the cost of security.

 

[Glenco]

Our city administration has reported these same findings to our council that this report going to Calgary's council does:

"There is no correlation between the provision of fare gates and increased transit safety on existing systems with fare gates,” it reads.

“Other transit agencies with fare gates experienced increased safety-related incidents throughout the pandemic and increased complexity with intersecting societal considerations impacting public transit.”

City report says closed transit system would not improve safety

The report says a fully closed system in Calgary is “not feasible” due to the way certain stations are integrated into the community.

www.google.com

Calgary system does not lend it self to fare gates at all. All of Edmonton’s downtown station, University and Clareview are compatible. Others would need modifications such as Century park but that could be done by doubling up the footbridge. All future stations should be designed for gates. As long as all the major destinations are controlled the majority or fare evaders will be eliminated.

 

[JuliallThat]

Even if faregates aren't installed at every station, if the stations that have faregates require you to tap to leave as well, then it will charge people who had entered a gateless station and didn't pay there. This would be relevant for people that disembark downtown.

 

[TAS]

Is fare evasion really a concern at this point?

St. Louis is spending $52million for fare gates as noted above not because of fare evasion (90+% of people pay) and not because it's going to make it safer.

The only reason they are doing it is the perception of safety, and that may well be a good enough reason for many or most. They are banking that perception will lead to increased ridership.

In St. Louis, the turnstiles are actually more about "curb appeal," says Taulby Roach, president of Bi-State Development, which is in charge of St. Louis's MetroLink. "People have asked me, is this just a fancy marketing plan? Honestly, I say yes."

St. Louis is trying to attract the best talent to run their companies, and when the region is perceived as being safe — as being progressive and looking at new ideas and always improving — obviously they benefit as well."

Roach says the gates are more about public perception than actually reducing fare evasion, since already more than nine in 10 passengers pay.

But to rebuild ridership, "I need to be sure the curb appeal of my system is right on top of everybody's mind," he said.

"Having everybody feel, 'Gosh, that system is really safe and secure and they did the simple step of putting turnstiles in because that's what we wanted' — then we're all in."

 

[Glenco]

^So perception is just as important. If that increases ridership then it is all good.

 

[Glenco]

Pre pandemic LRT ridership was approximately 114,000. If 11,400 don’t pay times $3.5 equals $39,900 a day times 365 equals $14,563,00. Not a big deal?

 

[TAS]

Pre pandemic LRT ridership was approximately 114,000. If 11,400 don’t pay times $3.5 equals $39,900 a day times 365 equals $14,563,00. Not a big deal?

That's a lot of money. And that's the way the city has been operating since day one of lrt.

In a 2019 article, Toronto reported losing $61 million in fare evasion (a small percentage of overall transit revenue) and they actually have fare gates (see link to article below).

You're obviously confident that fare gates are the way to go. I don't have enough information to argue one way or the other - I've just been sharing statements from transit officials or news articles on the subject and still learning more.

In reading an article about Vancouver's experience with fare gates it's some good, some not as good as they hoped. That might still be a win.

From their transit police, people who pay their fares also commit crimes. Fare gates certainly don't always prevent people from getting in. It did free up staff to focus more on safety issues though.

I was just in Vancouver recently and took the sky train from airport to downtown. I paid for a zone 1 ticket by mistake when it should have been a zone 2 ticket. So when i got downtown the fare gate wouldn't open. So I just let the person behind me go and I just followed him through the fare gate. I guess that is not uncommon with fare gates.

Huge Group Of Toronto Teens Commit Mass TTC Fare Evasion And Get Away With It (VIDEO)

Toronto's faulty TTC fare payment system was exposed again last night.

www.narcity.com

 

[Glenco]

It is not a full proof solution but there is no need to make it easy. Who knows how many people are evading fare payment? We have no idea it could be 20-30% in which case it would be criminal not to be a lot more diligent.