IanO
Superstar
Yup, we do.
As much as I agree with you, I cannot see closing Jasper Ave down for a year. This years construction season was good. last years not so much. I was involved with the Ft Ed park utility upgrade (Shallow Utility inspection). That made sense to close but its controlled and no public. Hawreluk Park will be way different. I don't think the public will allow it to be closed. As for Jasper Ave. Maybe they can do a longer section instead of breaking it up. Plan for multiple crews working. They Kinda did that this year now they can push the rebuilding.I can't disagree with both your points.
I come from the side of being Contract administrator and Engineer on a lot of municipal rehabilitation projects and so recognise the frustrations of public during construction. I also think I understand how contractors plan their construction schedules. Nothing is perfect but I think on Jasper they did a pretty good job of keeping the road open and completing deep utility replacements and upgrades under relentless scrutiny. (I am not connected to the project at all.)
My suggestion for completing this type of project more quickly is to shut down the road completely and allow the full width of the ROW to be constructed at the same time which would also give a better product and be more efficient with materials.....good luck with that though!
that might have worked if 101a was still a through street or if 102 avenue wasn't closed down for lrt or if 103 as a through street or if 103a/104 wasn't closed as much as it's open for ice district and lrt construction and if half or more of the north south connecters weren't also closed or severely restricted as well.I can't disagree with both your points.
I come from the side of being Contract administrator and Engineer on a lot of municipal rehabilitation projects and so recognise the frustrations of public during construction. I also think I understand how contractors plan their construction schedules. Nothing is perfect but I think on Jasper they did a pretty good job of keeping the road open and completing deep utility replacements and upgrades under relentless scrutiny. (I am not connected to the project at all.)
My suggestion for completing this type of project more quickly is to shut down the road completely and allow the full width of the ROW to be constructed at the same time which would also give a better product and be more efficient with materials.....good luck with that though!
If we had a robust transit system serving Jasper Avenue and the surrounding areas, then road traffic would likely decrease substantially. 102 and 100 Avenues do not run the length of the built-up areas around downtown.We have 102 Avenue and 100Ave for calmed, mixed modal/use and need Jasper to be able to have decent capacity to function, sorry folks, we do.
We definitely don't, Ian. Jasper as a thoroughfare might still work now, but if we ever get to the density you talk so much about, it will be complete and absolute CHAOS, planning the downtown traffic around Jasper as an east-west people mover.Yup, we do.
It's multi-modal as is with cars, bikes, buses (FNA trolleys), pedestrians, LRT and scooters.
The composition/cross-section does not really matter if you don't reasons to go there. We don't have a highway there, we have a lack of stores, destinations and reasons to stroll.
Whyte makes it sorta work on the north side of the street with a very, very similar composition.
The hard reality is that most people prefer enclosed malls and big boxed things.
0 - purposefulI can point out so many wrong assumptions here that it's actually scary. For someone who can be quite insightful, when it comes to Jasper Ave (for some reason) you're particularly attached to preconceived ideas that lack the long-term component.
1 - A multimodal street is different from a stroad; the former has all of its modes at the same level of priority, which is what Jasper could be if we had protected bike lanes, dedicated bus lanes, narrower car lanes that are compatible with people, bikes, transit and car are at the same priority level. The later is a deadly and terrible combination of a thoroughfare though to move a high number of cars from point A to B as fast as possible, with elements of retail/office space that are very hostile to people and are better served by cars.
2 - Whyte has one thing Jasper doesn't: congestion caused by the intersection with Gateway Blvd and Calgary Trail, and the lanes a little bit narrower, both of which lower speeds considerably, adding to pedestrian safety and comfort.. It also has more destinations and the whole Old Strathcona was though to support such an environment, adding in that there's barely any comercial activity in the perpendicular streets, concentrating it on Whyte and making it busier, whereas Downtown has things spread out.
3 - I REALLY don't believe that Edmontonians are so different from any other North Americans out there and, specifically Canadians. If it was true that people here like big-box and enclosed malls that much more than street shopping, people wouldn't fill the streets of Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, even Calgary (and hell, Edmonton and Calgary are MUCH more similar than any of us like to admit, culturally speaking) regardless of the weather. Yes, it is true that Edmonton is colder than those cities, but we get less snow than Montreal, less rain than Vancouver and we're just marginally colder than Calgary. Also, we can get big box stores to downtown, if you want to go there, but according to you, we don't have the density (but I'm guessing Allard has).
4 - As Ted said, the whole idea of planning is looking for the future, not just present. You keep talking about the need to increase density in the Downtown core, but if we do, we need to start thinking the streets there for the residents AND to be more attractive to people and businesses.
0 - purposeful
1-That's A LOT of assumptions, assertions and desire to go to Buffett Royal to put maple syrup on your chocolate chip salad. Sometimes it's best to opt for the pork chop sans demi glace.
2-Do you want to hangout at either spot for much time? It's the in between and mid-blocks that should be what we are aiming for. Excuses for excuses; I like it!
3-To that I would agree. Problem is, we don't have enough of the other folks here... and so we are and will be just as I said... 2-3-9 lanes or not.
D-What's attractive to a business, lessor, lessee, broker, investor? Traffic counts or urbanist folklore?
Why put everything for everyone right there when we can do that on 102ave and differentiate use, need and purpose?