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Jasper Avenue New Vision / Imagine Jasper Avenue

ChazYEG said:
While I disagree with your opinion, I do respect it.

On my end of things, I have lived in a fair amount of places and visited an also not too small number of other ones, across a few continents, which I also believe make me at least a little bit qualified to comment on these matters.

I'll try to answer the same questions you asked yourself there, so we know where our differences reside there:

Do I love what I'm seeing right now on Jasper? No really
Do I hate it? Also no
Is it a vast improvement? vast? Nope! Improvement? Yes!!!
Do I think that it struck the right balance? Not in a million years. I still see it prioritizing cars more than anything else and I don't believe that is the right balance. Bikes, transit and pedestrians should be the priority. The one thing I can't get past in this whole project is not getting a protected bike lane as a replacement for the (absolutely USELESS) turning lanes. Going around a block, when you're driving, so you don't make a left turn DOESN'T HURT! It also improves traffic flow drastically, which is a bonus for the car-people.

Is 100-102st some of the worst consultant directed BS I've ever seen? 200%

Is this part of the puzzle? The entire downtown urban fabric is.

Do most people want to sit on Jasper? Will they ever? No, they don't, but they could. Take Av. Paulista, in São Paulo, for example. It is, probably, the busiest street in the southern hemisphere, still, you'll see people sitting in bars and hanging out in the street night and day, 7 days a week.

Why? Lots of people want to sit on a busy, but safe, well maintained and attractive street. People crave energy, vibrancy and excitement and a busy street can provide just that, as long as it is safe and comfortable to enjoy it from the patios.
To stay in Edmonton, Whyte is as much of a thoroughfare as Jasper and, still, even on the busiest rush hours, people stay in patios, sometimes improvised or temporary, because it transmits certain degree of safety and comfort.

I do believe that most of our disagreements on this are also generational. Millenials and Gen Zrs are much more willing to take drastic, sometimes risky, measures to get things to change. We're also, in general, much more environmentally conscious and this plays a big part on our vision for the world and the cities that we live in. Not that you (or a lot of people from previous generations) don't care about it, but the feeling is that it is relegated to a less important stance.
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Not to be too off topic from this thread... but you mention getting rid of left turn lanes. I have a mentor who lived in South Korea and he said they have no left turn lanes basically. He know lives in Vancouver and believes a lot of their congestion is due to this. He thinks Vancouver should eliminate as 3 rights beat a left in terms of speed and safety. I know delivery trucks do routes this way. But is this a possible idea for any of our main roads? Thoughts? I can think of many intersections on jasper, 104th Ave, 149 street etc where the left turns cause major backups
 
thommyjo said:
Not to be too off topic from this thread... but you mention getting rid of left turn lanes. I have a mentor who lived in South Korea and he said they have no left turn lanes basically. He know lives in Vancouver and believes a lot of their congestion is due to this. He thinks Vancouver should eliminate as 3 rights beat a left in terms of speed and safety. I know delivery trucks do routes this way. But is this a possible idea for any of our main roads? Thoughts? I can think of many intersections on jasper, 104th Ave, 149 street etc where the left turns cause major backups
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Essentially NOWHERE in the world except for Australia and North America have turning lanes like we do here. And yes, it is safer and faster to do 3 rights... I routinely do it and it is not rare to pass for the cars that were waiting to turn left when I first passed through the intersection.
 
I think the trouble with three right turns downtown (making a left) is that many of the streets crossing Jasper Avenue will lead to a big detour. For example, going west to turn left on 103 Street (without left turns) means a right turn on 104 Street, 102 Avenue (possibly one way eastbound with LRT) and a right turn onto 103 Street southbound. I think allowing left turns at 101 Street makes navigation around downtown easier. I think signs pointing out the Arts District, Rogers Place and other major destinations would make finding directions a lot easier.
 
The_Cat said:
Don’t many of these countries have drivers keeping on the left side of the road?
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It's... it's almost like... that was the joke in Ted's comment 😆
 
I remember way back when... I was standing curbside in Roma watching cars going 'round and 'round in a round-about. One chappo was so afraid to make a run for an outside exit lane to depart the traffic circle that he just kept going in circles with the following tune blasting loudly on his car radio --
 
IanO said:
Jasper is more akin to our W Georgia than a Robson
A N. Michigan more than a N. Rush

It can certainly be improved, more street level added and more activity generated, but the reality is that it MUST remain a rather important arterial...
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I don't disagree with what you said, but I am wondering then what street downtown is our Robson, or do we not have one?
 
'fantastic'... go on.

I love the fact that I can go to Downtown/104 for one experience, 124st for another and Whyte for a 3rd... but they need a bit more density, quality urban design and offerings before I'd say that.
 
Downtown Edmonton is the core and Strathcona feels like a completely separate town. Calgary, Saskatchewan, Regina, Winnipeg, and Victoria have nothing like this.
It is so fantastic that if Strathcona never happened, any talk of a gondola would have been laughed out of the room. Both of those cores do need more work though, at least we are making progress.

This is Edmonton's identity! We should be proud of it.
 
itom987 said:
Downtown Edmonton is the core and Strathcona feels like a completely separate town. Calgary, Saskatchewan, Regina, Winnipeg, and Victoria have nothing like this.
It is so fantastic that if Strathcona never happened, any talk of a gondola would have been laughed out of the room. Both of those cores do need more work though, at least we are making progress.

This is Edmonton's identity! We should be proud of it.
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If Edmonton had never annexed Strathcona back in the early 1900s these two would most likely be considered twin cities along the lines of Minneapolis and St Paul. As a city we should need to improve connectivity between the two cores. Downtown needs to fill in it's parking and Strathcona needs to establish some kind of a distinct skyline. I don't mean build massive skyscrapers everywhere as this would be counter to it's existent identity of Old Strathcona but a few couple key towers could really drive home the "Twin Cities" feel.
 
Strathcona has "peripheral" towers on track beginning with "the Hat" on 81 Ave and the Phase 2 towers east on Whyte. These will complement the residential towers near the UofA and the view towers along Sask. Drive. Farther East there is the prospect of Bonnie Doon, Strathearn et al. I would say that the South Side is keeping pace with the North Side. And Huge Potential lies in the CP lands,
 
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