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Jasper Avenue New Vision / Imagine Jasper Avenue

 


"The work there began as a community-led vision to not just rehabilitate the current roadway and sidewalks but to use the reconstruction to enhance the avenue with an innovative, vibrant and relevant streetscape"

Failed on all 3 fronts for Imagine Jasper
 
It's bland and boring for starts. How can they say this is vibrant when it's basically all grey with chunks of wood for benches that will fade in a few month?. It's just completely underwhelming for what is our main street, which should also be our showcase street downtown.
 
What would you have suggested or done?
Oh man, so many suggestions were made here I don`t even know where to begin... from radical proposals to some very much easy to implement without NIMBYs screaming.

One would be having 2 lanes in each direction and instead of a third lane just as wide, but just for parking, like we have today, have a narrower, more targeted parking a wider sidewalks and corner pockets that can hold bike racks, abolish the turning lane and add that to one of the sides as a protected bike lane, add some native trees to the landscaping and voilà!!!! You retain the two traffic lanes (point for the crying babies that will complain about what are they going to do with their big-fat-lifted-trucks), retain on-street parking, but organize it better AND widen sidewalks (point for all of the businesses that depend on street parking, for the crying babies that can`t walk a block from the nearest parking lot to their destination AND for pedestrians), create a protected cycling infrastructure in our main street, which can be a showcase for how biking can be a good thing for this city for both cyclists and businesses (point for anyone who actually cares about urban development, the environment and general good urbanism).

Some more radical would involve bus lanes, one-way binary with 104 avenue, etc, but I will admit that these are too far fetched to be feasible with the current mindset of even some of the most innovative people in town.

As I usually like to point out, if we keep worrying about what the car-people and the average suburbanite will think of this and that, especially with regards to reviving our downtown, we`re never going to get ANYWHERE. The car centric nature of our city is one of the main reasons of the many structural issues in the urban fabric of the city, and the difficulties in correcting them. That is especially true for Downtown, which should be an epicenter for vibrancy, cultural life, work, leisure and, most of all, living and, yet, we keep bowing to the needs of cars and their masters at the expense of EVERYTHING that has been proven to be positive for this kind of area, either when applied temporarily in Edmonton (such as closing off some streets like 104 st, for example) or permanently (like Argyle and Grafton in Halifax, or the bike infrastructure in many Scandinavian cities)

@IanO you`re one of the biggest critics of the current state of disrepair of DT Edmonton and yet, every single time someone suggests a solution that is not just cosmetic and/or "good enough" you seem to be either dismissive or, even worse, run to the corner of the car-people. I have absolutely no intention to quarrel with you about this, everyone is entitled their opinion and this is a democratic forum, but I would LOVE to know exactly where you stand on all of this.
 
Let me preface this with the fact that I walk 90% of the time, maybe more... with 5% of my travel by car and 5% by bike/transit.

I also travel a fair amount and believe that I have enough empirical knowledge from places that value well thought out public, private and in-between places and spaces to comment on things.

Do I love what I'm seeing right now on Jasper? no
Do I hate it? no
Is it a vast improvement? absolutely
Do I think that it struck the right balance? yes
Is 100-102st some of the worst consultant directed BS I've ever seen? 100%
Is this part of the puzzle? yup
Do most people want to sit on Jasper? Will they ever? no
Why? few people want to sit on a busy avenue that needs to function as one for a variety of reasons
Also, there are places like Churchill Sq, 104st, Alex D Park, Dick Mather etc. etc. to enjoy.

Jasper/Downtown needs to be a safe, well-designed, functional and clean place with reasons to go there, stay there, linger and explore.

We don't have the hook, demand, density or desire to really have an urban core... but like small tastes of it.

Add in a climate that is either too cold, too windy or too dusty and things are an uphill battle here...

Can we do better? yes
Are we? generally yes
 
It's not all dark and depressing though and we have pockets of light, but we have so few E/W arterials and the reality is that 75% use cars right now and so we must find ways to accommodate reasonable traffic flow in and out of the core, period.
 
Let me preface this with the fact that I walk 90% of the time, maybe more... with 5% of my travel by car and 5% by bike/transit.

I also travel a fair amount and believe that I have enough empirical knowledge from places that value well thought out public, private and in-between places and spaces to comment on things.

Do I love what I'm seeing right now on Jasper? no
Do I hate it? no
Is it a vast improvement? absolutely
Do I think that it struck the right balance? yes
Is 100-102st some of the worst consultant directed BS I've ever seen? 100%
Is this part of the puzzle? yup
Do most people want to sit on Jasper? Will they ever? no
Why? few people want to sit on a busy avenue that needs to function as one for a variety of reasons
Also, there are places like Churchill Sq, 104st, Alex D Park, Dick Mather etc. etc. to enjoy.

Jasper/Downtown needs to be a safe, well-designed, functional and clean place with reasons to go there, stay there, linger and explore.

We don't have the hook, demand, density or desire to really have an urban core... but like small tastes of it.

Add in a climate that is either too cold, too windy or too dusty and things are an uphill battle here...

Can we do better? yes
Are we? generally yes
While I disagree with your opinion, I do respect it.

On my end of things, I have lived in a fair amount of places and visited an also not too small number of other ones, across a few continents, which I also believe make me at least a little bit qualified to comment on these matters.

I'll try to answer the same questions you asked yourself there, so we know where our differences reside there:

Do I love what I'm seeing right now on Jasper? No really
Do I hate it? Also no
Is it a vast improvement? vast? Nope! Improvement? Yes!!!
Do I think that it struck the right balance? Not in a million years. I still see it prioritizing cars more than anything else and I don't believe that is the right balance. Bikes, transit and pedestrians should be the priority. The one thing I can't get past in this whole project is not getting a protected bike lane as a replacement for the (absolutely USELESS) turning lanes. Going around a block, when you're driving, so you don't make a left turn DOESN'T HURT! It also improves traffic flow drastically, which is a bonus for the car-people.

Is 100-102st some of the worst consultant directed BS I've ever seen? 200%

Is this part of the puzzle? The entire downtown urban fabric is.

Do most people want to sit on Jasper? Will they ever? No, they don't, but they could. Take Av. Paulista, in São Paulo, for example. It is, probably, the busiest street in the southern hemisphere, still, you'll see people sitting in bars and hanging out in the street night and day, 7 days a week.

Why? Lots of people want to sit on a busy, but safe, well maintained and attractive street. People crave energy, vibrancy and excitement and a busy street can provide just that, as long as it is safe and comfortable to enjoy it from the patios.
To stay in Edmonton, Whyte is as much of a thoroughfare as Jasper and, still, even on the busiest rush hours, people stay in patios, sometimes improvised or temporary, because it transmits certain degree of safety and comfort.

I do believe that most of our disagreements on this are also generational. Millenials and Gen Zrs are much more willing to take drastic, sometimes risky, measures to get things to change. We're also, in general, much more environmentally conscious and this plays a big part on our vision for the world and the cities that we live in. Not that you (or a lot of people from previous generations) don't care about it, but the feeling is that it is relegated to a less important stance.
 
It's not all dark and depressing though and we have pockets of light, but we have so few E/W arterials and the reality is that 75% use cars right now and so we must find ways to accommodate reasonable traffic flow in and out of the core, period.
I disagree entirely, here, though. We don't need highway-level of traffic flow in the core (not even a high street level of flow, to be honest). To be fair, some degree of congestion is usually good for businesses and the reduction of the speed limit will do wonders to minimize the impact of any extra congestion.

Also, the proposal I described two posts ago did address maintaining the traffic flow (at the expense of turning lanes, a thing that I find abominable!!!) and left turns, so we can have a decent bike lane in the main street.
 
Jasper is more akin to our W Georgia than a Robson
A N. Michigan more than a N. Rush

It can certainly be improved, more street level added and more activity generated, but the reality is that it MUST remain a rather important arterial...
 
Jasper is more akin to our W Georgia than a Robson
A N. Michigan more than a N. Rush

It can certainly be improved, more street level added and more activity generated, but the reality is that it MUST remain a rather important arterial...
And even if I agreed with that statement (which I don't), there are ways to do it while improving bike and pedestrian infrastructure.
 
Both of which are being significantly improved along 102ave and has been along 100ave.

Also, thanks a lot for making me hit a Four Roses for feeling ancient with 'Not that you (or a lot of people from previous generations)'. I cry a lot these days.
 
I had some hope for Jasper when places like the Bay (at 102 Street) and the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce being restored. The vacant buildings stuck out like missing teeth. Downtown also cleaned up its graffiti and restored other buildings. However, downtown has suffered from the Covid closures. The LRT and downtown are perceived as unsafe.
 
They are cooking along pretty fast down on the east side. May have cubs in my the end of May
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