HappyJazzz
New Member
So true. Supply and demand is a vile right wing conspiracy theory with no basis in fact.
Housing shortages and poor employment prospects are all because of climate change, everyone knows that!
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Federal Politics
- Thread starter TAS
- Start date
Housing shortages and poor employment prospects are all because of climate change, everyone knows that!
policyenthusiast
Active Member
What a weird thing to say.So true. Supply and demand is a vile right wing conspiracy theory with no basis in fact.
Housing shortages and poor employment prospects are all because of climate change, everyone knows that!
Population increases due to immigration can contribute to shortages, but people who are informed about the economy would mention the construction industry being unable to hire new staff, a shortage of skilled trades, migration out of smaller communities due to lacking medical service availability, mass business closures after COVID, mass layoffs due to AI integration, the late response from the GoC to the housing crisis, and businesses downsizing because consumers have less disposable income.
HappyJazzz
New Member
Yeah that just sounds like supply and demand with additional copes.
What are you, some kind of climate change denier?
C'mon man, get educated!
David A
Senior Member
Perhaps climate change plays a role in this. Edmonton is a lot more attractive than say 30 years ago, when our winters were harsher and who really wants to live in certain parts of the middle east that are scorching now?
However, that is not only up to us. Canada does control its level of immigration and to a lesser extent the amount of housing constructed, so they should be coordinated better.
However, that is not only up to us. Canada does control its level of immigration and to a lesser extent the amount of housing constructed, so they should be coordinated better.
policyenthusiast
Active Member
From Better Dwelling:
The closure rate (share as a total) also set a similar pandemic record. The rate climbed 0.2 points to 5.0% in June, meaning 1 in 20 businesses closed their doors for good last month. If that sounds high, that’s because it is—the highest rate since June 2020.
Even more disturbing is the fact this issue is now widespread. Stat Can observed closures across industries, noting it was a broad issue. They did note that construction and retail were slightly ahead of the pack. This highlights how weak households are these days, since both industries should have seen a large boost just by sheer population growth.
Canada Just Saw 1 In 20 Businesses Close In A Single Month
Canadian businesses are shuttering at a breakneck speed. Seasonally adjusted data shows 46,354 businesses closed in June, marking the largest wave in exactly 4 years. That’s right, the current environment is so rough that businesses are responding like 2020 pandemic lockdowns just kicked off.The closure rate (share as a total) also set a similar pandemic record. The rate climbed 0.2 points to 5.0% in June, meaning 1 in 20 businesses closed their doors for good last month. If that sounds high, that’s because it is—the highest rate since June 2020.
Even more disturbing is the fact this issue is now widespread. Stat Can observed closures across industries, noting it was a broad issue. They did note that construction and retail were slightly ahead of the pack. This highlights how weak households are these days, since both industries should have seen a large boost just by sheer population growth.
David A
Senior Member
Not surprising. The Feds really mishandled the CEBA loan repayment situation. A number of small businesses were forced to use up much of their cash or get predatory loans to pay it off.
policyenthusiast
Active Member
I think that's a smart bet, a lot of businesses had operating losses during the entirety of COVID and then as soon as the consumer base starts to return (which they still haven't), they're on the hook for that deficit plus the loans they needed just to continue existing. The Alberta Chambers of Commerce called it, too.
https://www.abchamber.ca/policies/canada-emergency-business-account-and-regional-relief-and-recovery-fund-business-supports-2023/
erudyk_29
Active Member
Not to mention short term rentals (Airbnb and the like) and general investment properties driving up housing costs (for both renting and owning) in major cities.
Blaming migrants for everything is a lazy cop out, and barely scratches the surface of the issue.
David A
Senior Member
There are other issues, but when you almost double the number of immigrants, when there is already a housing shortage and not enough construction, it is just a recipe for disaster.
The large increase in foreign students also put a lot of pressure on rents in a number of communities in Canada. And those cost increases were borne by mostly lower income renters who were already in a tight financial situation due to increases in cost for food and other necessities. Really it is no wonder there is so much anger out there about how the Federal government has badly mismanaged this.
The large increase in foreign students also put a lot of pressure on rents in a number of communities in Canada. And those cost increases were borne by mostly lower income renters who were already in a tight financial situation due to increases in cost for food and other necessities. Really it is no wonder there is so much anger out there about how the Federal government has badly mismanaged this.
HappyJazzz
New Member
Yeah the diploma industry is another major culprit.
Simple solution there is to require schools to provide dorm housing for international students.
Minimizes the impact to the general RE market, and helps filter out fly by night strip mall colleges.
Win-win in my books!
HappyJazzz
New Member
I'm gonna have to nominate 'airbnb is responsible for the housing shortage' as cope of the day.
Here, have this gold star!
Whattagame
Active Member
10 reasons were listed, and no one claimed the list was exhaustive. The only ones doing that are those blaming immigrants.
erudyk_29
Active Member
Well that's a strawman and a half,
Did I say "Airbnb is responsible for the housing crisis"? I was adding to the list of many other factors listed by @policyenthusiast. It's a complex and multi-faceted issue, with many root causes.
Investment properties most certainly have an adverse effect on housing costs, there are large amounts of housing units left empty in cities like Vancouver and Toronto that are rented out either as just normal rentals or short term rentals like Airbnb and VRBO. They're also often just straight up money laundering. This is common knowledge. It almost certainly has a bigger impact on housing costs than immigrants.
Canada has been welcoming immigrants at a faster rate than it's able to accomodate them, this is true, but it's hardly the only or a dominant cause of the affordability crisis. You also seem to be forgetting why Canada is welcoming so many people: the birth rate is anemic, and Canada needs people to fill the workforce. If immigration is stopped or even cut by more than a quarter, the economy will collapse in on itself. Canada doesn't welcome so many immigrants out of the goodness of their hearts.
You're taking the very same overly simplistic view of the issue you seem to claim that I am. You're blaming the entire problem on "immigrants", when there are innumerable contributing factors.
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HappyJazzz
New Member
*scans through thread*
Nope, no mention of me blaming immigrants...
Here's the thing, at a high level, it really is a simple supply and demand problem.
If a government is inviting people in to prop up their economic ponzi schemes, it's hardly the invitee's fault if insufficient housing awaits. It's a planning/policy failure on the part of the government.
If you're hosting a diner party, and only have seating for 20, is it really unreasonable to stop inviting more guests than you can properly host?
Doesn't matter if the guests are from down the street or across the sea, it's just rude to ask your guest to eat diner sitting on the floor.
Rambling on with elaborate copes is just an attempt to distract from the glaring planning and policy incompetence on display.
erudyk_29
Active Member
^
It really is a lot more complicated, fundamentally it comes down to supply and demand yes, but you're hyper-fixating on one aspect of demand without even considering others and completely ignoring the supply aspect, while straw-manning me and saying I'm doing that with Airbnb.
A reduction in immigration is one lever among many the government could pull that may alleviate cost of living challenges. It's one that a lot of governments (including if a Conservative government were in power) are hesitant to do, because the Canadian economy is dependent on immigration to fill its labor pool. It's potentially the easiest short term solution, but could have dire consequences in the near future.
There are other levers the government has that won't cause a population collapse and will have a much more profound affect on housing in particular. Such as, making it easier for developers to build homes, simplifying and changing zoning codes to be more permissive to diverse types of housing (Edmonton is ahead of the game on this one). Cracking down on investment properties, especially ones owned by large corporations to drive up real estate costs, maybe dipping their toes into public housing which has been used successfully by countries like Singapore and Germany to reduce the cost of housing.
The Liberals haven't done any of those things on top of keeping immigration high and increasing it. I agree that they have severely mismanaged the affordability crisis, I am not a Trudeau fan personally. You have to see that the affordability crisis is more complex "immigrant show up, immigrant buy house, too many immigrant, house expensive". It's not cope to recognize that issues have many contributing factors, it's basic systems thinking. It's also not cope to say that immigration is an important aspect of the economy that is quite simply necessary to keep the country functioning. There's a reason that basically every country in the Western world is accepting large amounts of immigrants right now, including across Europe, the USA and Oceania. We don't want to end up like Japan, which has not accepted immigrants in an attempt to keep ethnic homogeneity and is currently experiencing rapid population collapse.
It really is a lot more complicated, fundamentally it comes down to supply and demand yes, but you're hyper-fixating on one aspect of demand without even considering others and completely ignoring the supply aspect, while straw-manning me and saying I'm doing that with Airbnb.
A reduction in immigration is one lever among many the government could pull that may alleviate cost of living challenges. It's one that a lot of governments (including if a Conservative government were in power) are hesitant to do, because the Canadian economy is dependent on immigration to fill its labor pool. It's potentially the easiest short term solution, but could have dire consequences in the near future.
There are other levers the government has that won't cause a population collapse and will have a much more profound affect on housing in particular. Such as, making it easier for developers to build homes, simplifying and changing zoning codes to be more permissive to diverse types of housing (Edmonton is ahead of the game on this one). Cracking down on investment properties, especially ones owned by large corporations to drive up real estate costs, maybe dipping their toes into public housing which has been used successfully by countries like Singapore and Germany to reduce the cost of housing.
The Liberals haven't done any of those things on top of keeping immigration high and increasing it. I agree that they have severely mismanaged the affordability crisis, I am not a Trudeau fan personally. You have to see that the affordability crisis is more complex "immigrant show up, immigrant buy house, too many immigrant, house expensive". It's not cope to recognize that issues have many contributing factors, it's basic systems thinking. It's also not cope to say that immigration is an important aspect of the economy that is quite simply necessary to keep the country functioning. There's a reason that basically every country in the Western world is accepting large amounts of immigrants right now, including across Europe, the USA and Oceania. We don't want to end up like Japan, which has not accepted immigrants in an attempt to keep ethnic homogeneity and is currently experiencing rapid population collapse.