Edmonton International Airport (EIA/YEG)

[TAS]

Here's one big reason Canadians perhaps can't have low cost carriers.

Taxes and Fees on Flights: What You Need to Know | Prince of Travel

The taxes, fees, and surcharges that you pay when booking a flight vary greatly and depend on many factors. How do they all work?

princeoftravel.com

"Airport Improvement Fees are especially contentious in Canada, since they’re higher than in the US and many other countries. Canadian passengers are said to be paying among the highest airport user fees in the world for domestic flights."

Flair charging $60 for a flight to Vancouver means it makes $10 on a person like me that travels with carry on only.

How do we get airport improvement fees down as one example? That a fed government decision or up to Airport that isn't regulated in this area?

 

[IanO]

Airport fees left the reasonable a decade or two ago now and were justified under the guise of 'safety'.

 

[Westendyeg]

I’ll miss Flair if they go under. Alot of people don’t like the ULCCs, but it was great being able to fly to Vancouver for the weekend for $120 RT.

 

[Ned]

Will Flair survive this latest issue plaguing them? That's a pretty serious cash call...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/flair-airlines-unpaid-taxes-cra-seizure-order-1.7098045

I believe Flair will survive. On another forum, Airliners.net, it seems that the majority of posts over the years is people predicting the end of Flair, yet they are still around. Flair claims to have a plan for the taxes and to be current with that plan. However, the CEO does say in regards to the debt, "At some point there will be some form of reckoning, whether it's a restructure or whatever."

https://www.facebook.com/flairairlines/posts/pfbid02XJ3tiQhq51jG92X8w8hqa4bXHooyWYcuypp9jfiUD7DujFGbW55zZVMwiEr95T6sl

 

[David A]

Here's one big reason Canadians perhaps can't have low cost carriers.

Taxes and Fees on Flights: What You Need to Know | Prince of Travel

The taxes, fees, and surcharges that you pay when booking a flight vary greatly and depend on many factors. How do they all work?

princeoftravel.com

"Airport Improvement Fees are especially contentious in Canada, since they’re higher than in the US and many other countries. Canadian passengers are said to be paying among the highest airport user fees in the world for domestic flights."

Flair charging $60 for a flight to Vancouver means it makes $10 on a person like me that travels with carry on only.

How do we get airport improvement fees down as one example? That a fed government decision or up to Airport that isn't regulated in this area?

I don't feel that $10 is going to break anyone and really it could be argued a user pay model is fairer. There are a lot of people who only fly infrequently and they may not want to or feel it is fair to subsidize those that can afford to fly more.

Also the airport fees have given more local autonomy and a way to expand airports here faster than in the US while still being more community managed and directed.

I would argue a greater cost difference between Canada and the US is fuel taxes. I don't say that to get into a political debate, but clearly it is because we have made different policy choices.

 

[David A]

I believe Flair will survive. On another forum, Airliners.net, it seems that the majority of posts over the years is people predicting the end of Flair, yet they are still around. Flair claims to have a plan for the taxes and to be current with that plan. However, the CEO does say in regards to the debt, "At some point there will be some form of reckoning, whether it's a restructure or whatever."

https://www.facebook.com/flairairlines/posts/pfbid02XJ3tiQhq51jG92X8w8hqa4bXHooyWYcuypp9jfiUD7DujFGbW55zZVMwiEr95T6sl

Hopefully what ever arrangement with CRA that has been made will allow them to keep operating without disruption. From the article, it seems to hint that cash that would have gone towards expansion will go to pay that instead.

The interest on the debt while at a high rate is being accrued, so that is not an immediate cash flow problem. However, at some point that could become a concern for the shareholders. I think that is the reckoning.

 

[TAS]

I don't feel that $10 is going to break anyone and really it could be argued a user pay model is fairer. There are a lot of people who only fly infrequently and they may not want to or feel it is fair to subsidize those that can afford to fly more.

Also the airport fees have given more local autonomy and a way to expand airports here faster than in the US while still being more community managed and directed.

I would argue a greater cost difference between Canada and the US is fuel taxes. I don't say that to get into a political debate, but clearly it is because we have made different policy choices.

$10 is all that Flair earns on my ticket to Van and it was $14 on my ticket to San Francisco. The taxes/fees are 4-5 times what the airline is earning on my ticket. That's tough economics for Flair to manage.

 

[edm13]

I’ll miss Flair if they go under. Alot of people don’t like the ULCCs, but it was great being able to fly to Vancouver for the weekend for $120 RT.

See the problem is, I am
Booking a flight to Vancouver for June. So do I book flair or spend an extra $50-$100 and book westjet and not have to worry if there is more bad news to come. I feel bad doing it but I think I’m going to book westjet

 

[ChazYEG]

See the problem is, I am
Booking a flight to Vancouver for June. So do I book flair or spend an extra $50-$100 and book westjet and not have to worry if there is more bad news to come. I feel bad doing it but I think I’m going to book westjet

From a very practical perspective, I don't see Flair going under, realistically. I would be more worried (as I was) if it was something regarding regulatory issues, but the CRA benefits very little from forcing businesses under, as they're way down in the pecking order to receive any proceeds of a bankruptcy. They benefit more from making deals to receive over a longer term, and even forgiving some taxes, etc...

 

[Glenco]

I don't feel that $10 is going to break anyone and really it could be argued a user pay model is fairer. There are a lot of people who only fly infrequently and they may not want to or feel it is fair to subsidize those that can afford to fly more.

Also the airport fees have given more local autonomy and a way to expand airports here faster than in the US while still being more community managed and directed.

I would argue a greater cost difference between Canada and the US is fuel taxes. I don't say that to get into a political debate, but clearly it is because we have made different policy choices.

The biggest issue is the exorbitant rent the federal government charges the local airport authorities. They could have sold off the land to them 25 or 30 years ago which would be paid off by now. Instead they treat them as a cash cow.

 

[occidentalcapital]

The biggest issue is the exorbitant rent the federal government charges the local airport authorities. They could have sold off the land to them 25 or 30 years ago which would be paid off by now. Instead they treat them as a cash cow.

If they gave money for capital construction it would help offset things, at the risk of funding becoming politicized.

 

[archited]

I still think that Flair should look for investors to develop a Flairport on the Coliseum site -- electric VTOLs could fly in and out of this Edmonton location with destinations that might include:
- Fort McMurray
- Athabasca
- Cold Lake
- Lac La Biche
- Vegreville
- Lloydminister
- Camrose
- Provost
- Red Deer
- Wainwright
- White Court
- Jasper
- Hinton
- Rocky Mountain House
- Valleyview
- Grande Cache
- Stettler
- Drumheller
The Edmonton base could have recharging stations for electric motors, a passenger experience terminal (cocktail lounge, eatery, ticket procurement, etc.) -- it might start as an on-call service that could then transmogrify into a daily schedule -- the market would initially be wide open for Flair serving business commutes to satellite cities; sportsmen (fishers and hunters) to major lakes; skiers to mountain resorts; holidayers to museums and resorts; remote residence families; suppliers to restaurateurs, retailers, etc. in smaller centres; and voyagers. Here are some examples of electric aircraft that are already in production:

 

[archited]

etcetera...

 

[BrettB]

If they gave money for capital construction it would help offset things, at the risk of funding becoming politicized.

They do, but hardly ever for passenger amenities except in the smallest airports (hence the AIF). Recall that in 2022, Ottawa announced $100 million for cargo and logistics.

 

[Mackwin]

I'm starting to think this is the beginning of the end for Flair.

Flair has so many issues. They should have never agreed to share aircraft with Bonza (FYI Bonza are also having massive issues, with this being one of their issues as well). I want both to survive as I live in both Canada (Winnipeg) and regional Australia where Bonza flys and provides massive price relief for flights, but honestly it isn't looking too good for both airlines at the moment. I hope they can sort themselves out soon before it's too late.