Edmonton City Centre Mall (Renovations) | ?m | 2s | LaSalle Investment Management

[Airboy]

I think we have that with the number of hospitalizations and people in ICUs. The number of people with covid now is definitely well under reported. But most important is like I say hospital and icu numbers.

Plus we are learning of impact with absenteeism numbers in schools, hospitals and other workplaces.

Based on reporting r lack there of. Hinshaw and other Health officials are stating the actual numbers are 10X the report numbers. And I've heard of enough people that have covid now as well. My Physio had to cancels todays appointment, My dentist is on shut down this week. Talk with an Arch who had it last week. Touch wood I think I haven't had it. But at my age I have so many aches and pains and other things going on I would only know if I had been testes.

 

[kcantor]

I think we need some kind of idea of the public health impact.

i think you’ll see wastewater testing become much more prominent. interestingly enough, if you consider it a form of “mass testing”, it’s a more economical way of obtaining population based data and not just for covid.

 

[TAS]

There was a good segment on Ryan Jespersen show yesterday called 'Are Malls Dead'.

According to the guests (Harvard professor), about 85% of malls are expected to be closed by 2025. (Power centres in trouble, too)

Give the segment a listen - it starts at 39:00.

Some interesting points.

To compete, stores and restaurants need to focus on experiences. Most department stores are in big trouble. Two bigger chains doing the best at creating 'the experience' are The Pottery Barn and Nordstroms. Stores need to do more than just provide a product, the model is moving fast to experiences.

More than 70% of all sales happens after 5pm - stores need to be open later for convenience.

While malls and power centres are dying, downtown and mainstreet shopping is surging in many US cities. The guest called Canadian cities ugly compared to European and American cities in terms of retails spaces, signage standards etc. That has to change. Retailers think of malls and strip malls as boring and want to be in downtowns and interesting streets/spaces.

One of the blindsides of online shopping is a more cumbersome return process - stores need to take advantage of that as well as the instant gratification of getting the product right then and there.

 

[Airboy]

Yah that was a good segment. Listening to it I realised ECC may be dead for good.

 

[thommyjo]

There was a good segment on Ryan Jespersen show yesterday called 'Are Malls Dead'.

According to the guests (Harvard professor), about 85% of malls are expected to be closed by 2025. (Power centres in trouble, too)

Give the segment a listen - it starts at 39:00.

Some interesting points.

To compete, stores and restaurants need to focus on experiences. Most department stores are in big trouble. Two bigger chains doing the best at creating 'the experience' are The Pottery Barn and Nordstroms. Stores need to do more than just provide a product, the model is moving fast to experiences.

More than 70% of all sales happens after 5pm - stores need to be open later for convenience.

While malls and power centres are dying, downtown and mainstreet shopping is surging in many US cities. The guest called Canadian cities ugly compared to European and American cities in terms of retails spaces, signage standards etc. That has to change. Retailers think of malls and strip malls as boring and want to be in downtowns and interesting streets/spaces.

One of the blindsides of online shopping is a more cumbersome return process - stores need to take advantage of that as well as the instant gratification of getting the product right then and there.

Thanks for sharing! And I think key, as we're seeing all over the country already, is conversion to community nodes.

One of the best ways to "beat" online shopping is to be more convenient. One way is to be within a few hundred meters of thousands. Which of course isn't possible with detached houses in the burbs, but TOD can give that. Why order from Amazon when its a 5min detour along my walk from LRT stop to condo lobby.

I forget where it was said, but the massive parking of early suburban malls has been one of the best preservations of large plots of land in "inner cities". Which is very true. Kingsway, Southgate, west ed, Bonnie doone. These are all quite central in our city now. Their redevelopment potential is key to our city plan's success.

 

[ChazYEG]

Yah that was a good segment. Listening to it I realised ECC may be dead for good.

Unless they integrate themselves to the streetscape and position the mall as an extension of street retail, rather than an enclosed mall.
In a city as cold as Edmonton is for half of the year, it might be interesting to think of it this way.

 

[archited]

Loathe to say so, but West Edmonton Mall is a model for survival -- loads of entertainment elements. City Centre mall could incorporate that example.

 

[occidentalcapital]

ECC has basically become a pedway between buildings, more than a mall. I think you'll see very strong foot traffic, but attracting good retailers may continue to be a challenge.

 

[thommyjo]

Unless they integrate themselves to the streetscape and position the mall as an extension of street retail, rather than an enclosed mall.
In a city as cold as Edmonton is for half of the year, it might be interesting to think of it this way.

ECC needs seniors housing, rental towers with 2+3bdrms, elementary school, great street interactions, a post secondary tenant, more urban tenants like a bike store or apartment focused furniture/home store. And I wonder if another indoor Waterpark format could work. But instead of it being slide heavy like west ed, its more like beach vibes. Swim up bar, hot tubs, lounge chairs and tropical vibes. More mature/romantic. I bet that'd do really well in the winter especially.

Here's a little report deloitte did. A big conclusion: food is the new fashion.

EDIT: reports not attaching. How do I share a pdf?

 

[BASE]

Would be fantastic if what Bob Gibbs said in that segment is true about a return to downtowns for retail. Sad to say I agree about the ugly sign thing in Edmonton (and Canada). The amount of those temporary rental signs seen strewn about around shopping areas is ugly.

 

[northlands]

ECC has basically become a pedway between buildings, more than a mall. I think you'll see very strong foot traffic, but attracting good retailers may continue to be a challenge.

When I was working DT pre-covid, ECC served exactly as you were saying--a pedway between buildings more than a mall. But it was also a pedway to an indoor food court, which was always super busy (no idea what it's been like the last two years). Worked as a fun place to get quick eats and also impromptu meeting up with friends/others I knew also working in DT. And then the shops could benefit from the convenience of popping in and grabbing a few things when going by them.

Not much but something to build off of I would think at least going forward, if "experience" truly is the way for survival.

I think @archited has it right, WEM will survive (hopefully) because the focus of that mall was never just to be a mall, but a full experience. Visiting WEM truly is an experience unlike anything else in western Canada and it will always have a lot of value in that regard, long as ownership continues to recognize that and not just treat it as a securitazble collateral for their other endeavors.

 

[Gronk!]

The Elevate food court is fairly busy at noon but not as crazy-busy before COVID hit. There are 3 or 4 CRUs in the food court that need to be refilled - any chance of seeing Taco Time or Orange Julius open?

 

[northlands]

Taco Time or Orange Julius? My man, I like how you roll.

 

[rmp]

If I understand the concept drawing provided last year, the new owners plan to connect the food court to the movie theatre using the pedway. Perhaps that's why they are closed?

Source: https://globalnews.ca/news/8163766/edmonton-city-centre-shopping-mall-redesign

 

[Greenspace]

WEM and other retail areas aside, I think that the Valley Line LRT and Loblaws can act as catalyst (almost like an anchor) for some retail in a renovated ECC west, however if we don't ensure people feel safe on the streets and using transit, it will continue to be a major challenge. LaSalle is trying to figure out what they got here from an investment and we as a City need to make it as welcoming and attractive as possible to invest here.