Charles Camsell Redevelopment | 39m | 8s | Five Oaks | Dub Architects

itom987 said:
This redevelopment has been taking forever to get finished. I feel sorry for those who were victimized by the government policies at the time, but what exactly do you hope to achieve from delaying this project? The residents that live in Inglewood want this project to be finished so they can continue on with their lives. Those residents come from all walks of life, including indigenous. I personally doubt there being any unmarked graves on site which may be the only reasonable reason to halt construction, if they find any.
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If it taking "forever to get finished" is your biggest concern, I don't think you've empathized with what Indigenous people experienced in this building. There are enough families claiming atrocities in that building/on the site to make this project an obvious no-go, with or without graves on-site.
 
That hospital saved my life, and many other lives as well. I went there with a collapsed lung in the '90s and found the facilities to be fine for a small hospital, it was built to first world standards in the '60s. I don't know much about the buildings that were there before they replaced them with the current building but I am sure that if they found human remains during construction it would have been treated as a crime scene. That building has been vacant for over 25 years and has been a problem for the neighbourhood ever since. It is nice to finally see construction happening, something positive can come out of it. The building was not the problem, the system was. Something can be built on site to remind all to treat each other with respect. But cancelling it is just letting a scar fester and won't make Inglewoodans happy, nor those let those affected by the tragedy have peace. But what do I know? You can tell me what halting the project does to solve the problem.
 
itom987 said:
That hospital saved my life, and many other lives as well. I went there with a collapsed lung in the '90s and found the facilities to be fine for a small hospital, it was built to first world standards in the '60s. I don't know much about the buildings that were there before they replaced them with the current building but I am sure that if they found human remains during construction it would have been treated as a crime scene. That building has been vacant for over 25 years and has been a problem for the neighbourhood ever since. It is nice to finally see construction happening, something positive can come out of it. The building was not the problem, the system was. Something can be built on site to remind all to treat each other with respect. But cancelling it is just letting a scar fester and won't make Inglewoodans happy, nor those let those affected by the tragedy have peace. But what do I know? You can tell me what halting the project does to solve the problem.
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You lack of sensitivity to the atrocities that happened to indigenous people in the building is striking and your comment spectacularly tone deaf and self centered.

I frankly refuse to engage in such debate, on the account of not expecting any sort of positive impact coming out of it, but I do feel the need to remark that.
 
Agreed with @ChazYEG - but I will answer your question:

But cancelling it is just letting a scar fester and won't make Inglewoodans happy, nor those let those affected by the tragedy have peace. But what do I know? You can tell me what halting the project does to solve the problem.
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The opposite of what you've said is true. Turning the building where Indigenous peoples' loved ones were tortured into a condominium is not going to bring them peace.

Your positive experience in the 90's doesn't negate years of awful stories before you visited. We should be ashamed of this past we should want to do everything to help our Indigenous brothers and sisters heal. With this site, it should be up to the Treaty 6 First Nations to decide how it is developed, if at all.
 
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ChazYEG, I find you telling me that I lack sensitivity to the atrocities that happened to indigenous people very insulting. When I got married I refused to have my wedding be held in a catholic church because of what the church did in the past, I also refused to have the word God and Jesus mentioned in the ceremony. All this happened before I was even born, my grandparents came to Canada from the Netherlands in the '50s and also had nothing to do with the church or government. I have witnessed hate being passed on from generation to generation when I was in China talking to students. Those children told me they wanted to kill Japanese people for what they did to China in WW2. I had to remind them that they were not alive when WW2 happened and wanting to kill Japanese people that were not born during WW2 does not make a right. We need to break the cycle otherwise the problem will persist and effect our children in the future. The fact that we as a nation are now talking about and making amends is a positive step in the right direction. But I am going to say this, I understand that most natives would want to kick me out of the country but I was born here and would have nowhere else to go. This is the same for every Canadian that was born here. What kind of a society should we create out of this, I hope it is one where everyone is equal.
 
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Edmonton’s Own Hospital of Horrors

Tansi Nîtôtemtik, “Charles Camsell Indian Hospital” Edmonton, Alberta. Photo retrieved from: https://edmontonjournal.com/entertainment/books/book-explores-edmonton-indian-hospital-horrors-and-healing-since. As we continue our week discussing trauma and oppression throughout Canada, today’s post...
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MCXavierL said:
Agreed with @ChazYEG - but I will answer your question:



The opposite of what you've said is true. Turning the building where Indigenous peoples' loved ones were tortured into a condominium is not going to bring them peace.

Your positive experience in the 90's doesn't negate years of awful stories before you visited. We should be ashamed of this past we should want to do everything to help our Indigenous brothers and sisters heal. With this site, it should be up to the Treaty 6 First Nations to decide how it is developed, if at all.
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The site is privately owned.
If there are bodies buried there: Treaty 6 could with the financial support of the Federal Government purchase the site and construction "as is" IF the Owner is agreeable (in a heart beat yes)
If there are bodies buried there and neither Treaty 6 nor Federal Government buy the site or address remove/relocate the bodies the Owner is in a quagmire.
If there are no bodies there the Owner will need to determine how to manage the PR-media fall out that impact future sales/rentals - another quagmire.
 
EdmTrekker said:
The site is privately owned.
If there are bodies buried there: Treaty 6 could with the financial support of the Federal Government purchase the site and construction "as is" IF the Owner is agreeable (in a heart beat yes)
If there are bodies buried there and neither Treaty 6 nor Federal Government buy the site or address remove/relocate the bodies the Owner is in a quagmire.
If there are no bodies there the Owner will need to determine how to manage the PR-media fall out that impact future sales/rentals - another quag
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It is so refreshing to see people taking these issues seriously now. Between 2016 and 2017 I worked as a Telus tech doing infrastructure work all along the Highway of Tears.

I have to admit, I was rather ignorant to many of the attrocities the indigenous people were subjugated to until I actually got into peoples homes and started talking to them about things that had happened to their families. Not to mention the ongoing issues surrounding MMIW.

I’m glad we are debating and discussing this. How we decide to proceed forward will determine whether or not the blood spills onto our own hands, and I really don’t think it will.

I fully expect the government and church to accept responsibility and to begin by ending the court battles and reaching settlements. I expect our leaders to begin funding heritage and archeological surveys of every single site and for our country to start building the history on this matter and for it to become a major part of the curriculum from Jr. High up. I also expect greater attention to MMIW and for it to be better investigated going forward.

Seeing first hand traumatized communities where everyone had the same stories back then really stuck with me, so it feels good seeing people open their eyes.
 
Dub has agreed to scan a portion of the property that has not been disturbed.

I myself do not believe they will find bodies there. I remember growing up near it. (Dovercourt). We knew that is was mostly TB patients but it was also for all FN patients as it was a federal hospital for years. When Alberta nurses went on strike that hospital kept on working. I had friends that went to the hospital and also a couple of neighbors that worked there. One was a Metis Dr. When someone died they were either sent to St Albert to be buried or to Enock and Hobbema.
 
itom987 said:
ChazYEG, I find you telling me that I lack sensitivity to the atrocities that happened to indigenous people very insulting. When I got married I refused to have my wedding be held in a catholic church because of what the church did in the past, I also refused to have the word God and Jesus mentioned in the ceremony. All this happened before I was even born, my grandparents came to Canada from the Netherlands in the '50s and also had nothing to do with the church or government. I have witnessed hate being passed on from generation to generation when I was in China talking to students. Those children told me they wanted to kill Japanese people for what they did to China in WW2. I had to remind them that they were not alive when WW2 happened and wanting to kill Japanese people that were not born during WW2 does not make a right. We need to break the cycle otherwise the problem will persist and effect our children in the future. The fact that we as a nation are now talking about and making amends is a positive step in the right direction. But I am going to say this, I understand that most natives would want to kick me out of the country but I was born here and would have nowhere else to go. This is the same for every Canadian that was born here. What kind of a society should we create out of this, I hope it is one where everyone is equal.
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If you are not insensitive, you're not making a good work of showing it. I agree with you that we need to stop the hate cycle and that is one of the reason why I have come down hard on several people in the past few days over their defense of burning churches down and whatnot, as I don't believe it is the best way to get reparation and reconciliation (let's talk taxing churches and using the money to fund better infrastructure, clean running water and good, sensible education/professional training for the reserves, for example).
Halting a development to AT LEAST debate and understand the history behind the building and look back to face the reality of what a lot of people suffered there, on the other hand, doesn't seem unreasonable. While they might not find bodies, there is a good chance that we might want to at least acknowledge and discuss what happened there before moving on and perpetuating a building that symbolizes so much suffering.
I am all for development, otherwise I wouldn't even be on this forum, but sometimes we need to take a step back.
 
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