thommyjo
Senior Member
My exact thoughts...always amazes me how much governments and schools get fleeced by low quality developers that make bad interfaces. ETS app vs the Transit app is a great example haha. So embarrassing.
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Arc Smart Fare System
- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
Given how delayed this is, it is probably more than the interface, unfortunately.
CplKlinger
Senior Member
Did that work @Aaron_Lloyd?
CplKlinger
Senior Member
Here are the FAQs on the pilot website; let me know if you want the answer for any of them!
Aaron_Lloyd
Active Member
I found where you'd add a card. I tried adding two different cards but got the same "failed card verification" error for both. Which is weird considering one of the cards I tried adding to my account was the Amex one I used to reload my ARC card.
Would also be nice if they added a checkbox to the card reload form asking whether you'd like to save this card for later. The fact they didn't have anything like that is what initially made me think they didn't have this functionality.
CplKlinger
Senior Member
That's strange. The Arc call centre is open now, so you should call the number on the back of your card! 1-888-302-0001I found where you'd add a card. I tried adding two different cards but got the same "failed card verification" error for both. Which is weird considering one of the cards I tried adding to my account was the Amex one I used to reload my ARC card.
Would also be nice if they added a checkbox to the card reload form asking whether you'd like to save this card for later. The fact they didn't have anything like that is what initially made me think they didn't have this functionality.
On another note: The pilot website was just updated today with specific information about the monthly fare cap breakdown for different zones and fare groups, as well as the flat fares for each municipality.
CplKlinger
Senior Member
(I'm so sorry for the spam here today)
I was a bit confused about what the CRP in "Arc by CRP" stands for. The website is also marked as "© 2022 CRP." Thankfully, the terms of use were also posted on the account creation page today, and they define CRP: "'CRP' means the Capital Region Partners and in the context of these Terms and Conditions refers to the Service Providers of the Participating Municipalities" And the term is used as if this is a legal entity. IE "CRP may charge the Cardholder non-refundable fees from time to time set by CRP..." However, inquiries about the terms and conditions are directed to the ETS fare program manager, and privacy concerns are directed to Edmonton's privacy officer.
Some more interesting tidbits from the terms:
You can have up to $500 in your "purse" (wallet) at one time, but must have at least $2. The cards have an estimated lifespan of ten years. The tickets look similar to cards, but cannot be reloaded; they can be purchased as either a 90-minute pass or a 24-hour pass, and activate at the first tap. You can keep a ticket for up to one year without tapping it, before it expires.
I wonder if this is an omission? Emphasis mine. "The Cardholder agrees to pay the Arc Card Fee for each Generic Compass Card obtained or issued to the Cardholder."
You must tap on and off even after your daily/monthly cap is met. If you're a UPass student and your UPass is deemed to be invalid, money will be taken from your purse if it has any funds. You can have a negative balance of up to $-4.25, if you pay for a trip that is more expensive than the funds you have left; you'll just need to fill that gap when refilling your card. You can reload your card at any stores which sell Arc cards. You're only eligible for loss protection if you register your card and report it as lost or stolen. Taps from the last two hours may not be reflected in your usage history. If you enable autoloading for your card (only possible if your card is registered), it'll charge your credit or debit card when your balance falls below $10.
I was a bit confused about what the CRP in "Arc by CRP" stands for. The website is also marked as "© 2022 CRP." Thankfully, the terms of use were also posted on the account creation page today, and they define CRP: "'CRP' means the Capital Region Partners and in the context of these Terms and Conditions refers to the Service Providers of the Participating Municipalities" And the term is used as if this is a legal entity. IE "CRP may charge the Cardholder non-refundable fees from time to time set by CRP..." However, inquiries about the terms and conditions are directed to the ETS fare program manager, and privacy concerns are directed to Edmonton's privacy officer.
Some more interesting tidbits from the terms:
You can have up to $500 in your "purse" (wallet) at one time, but must have at least $2. The cards have an estimated lifespan of ten years. The tickets look similar to cards, but cannot be reloaded; they can be purchased as either a 90-minute pass or a 24-hour pass, and activate at the first tap. You can keep a ticket for up to one year without tapping it, before it expires.
I wonder if this is an omission? Emphasis mine. "The Cardholder agrees to pay the Arc Card Fee for each Generic Compass Card obtained or issued to the Cardholder."
You must tap on and off even after your daily/monthly cap is met. If you're a UPass student and your UPass is deemed to be invalid, money will be taken from your purse if it has any funds. You can have a negative balance of up to $-4.25, if you pay for a trip that is more expensive than the funds you have left; you'll just need to fill that gap when refilling your card. You can reload your card at any stores which sell Arc cards. You're only eligible for loss protection if you register your card and report it as lost or stolen. Taps from the last two hours may not be reflected in your usage history. If you enable autoloading for your card (only possible if your card is registered), it'll charge your credit or debit card when your balance falls below $10.
CplKlinger
Senior Member
Ah, I think I know why. It looks like they (understandably) took a lot of wording and structure from the Compass terms and conditions.
"The Cardholder agrees to pay the Deposit and any applicable fees for each Generic Compass Card obtained or issued to the Cardholder." A 'generic compass card' is just one that has money in an online wallet, or a period (IE monthly) pass.
I posted the Arc terms and conditions in a google doc if you're curious.
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CplKlinger
Senior Member
I managed to find some info about the fare vending machines. I checked VenTek's website last year, but it didn't mention them – and it still doesn't. But it turns out they contracted its design out to an Australian firm, and their website has a pretty comprehensive page about it. I didnt realize just how durable they're made to be.
good-design.org
VenTek - Smart Fare Vending Machine - Good Design
The VenTek SFVM is a Smart Fare Vending Machine allowing the unattended purchase of tickets for public transit, parking, entry, and other applications. The SFVM’s modular design is configurable to customer requirements and suited to any industry application that requires tickets to be purchased...
good-design.org
cliffapotamus
Active Member
so any guesses on when the general public gets access to these cards? Like, it seems like all the pieces are here, is it just testing left to be done?
i've missed out on both rounds of testing volunteers. I really want one of these cards. WHEN DO US MERE MORTALS GET THEM?!
sorry for the rant. but yeah, any guesses?
i've missed out on both rounds of testing volunteers. I really want one of these cards. WHEN DO US MERE MORTALS GET THEM?!
sorry for the rant. but yeah, any guesses?
CplKlinger
Senior Member
Spring 2022 is the timeframe for adult fare passes if the testing goes well. There's still a lot they need to sort through behind the scenes; scanners slow to respond or broken altogether, making sure taps register promptly on the back-end, ensuring that the fares and caps are calculated correctly across the region, etc. The team will report the pilot results to Edmonton's council at the end of March, and from there they'll decide whether to open it to adult fare users, or extend the pilot further. Once adult fare users are onboarded, they'll make sure other kinks get addressed before gradually phasing in other fare groups (again, the *plan* is for that to occur over the course of 2022).
If it makes you feel any better, this is the only round of testing other than U-Passes so far; the fare pilot just got delayed from summer 2021 to winter 2022, and so they could use a lot of the original volunteers.
cliffapotamus
Active Member
@CplKlinger thanks, you're a gem!
DutchBoy
Active Member
I also submitted as feedback to them that users should be able to tap off of a bus before the bus doors open! In other systems I've used, you can tap off for the "next" station in advance, so everyone can deboard quickly and efficiently. If ridership goes back up, the current set up will cause a bit of a traffic jam near doors. This is just a difference of 0.5-1 second per user, but that can add up rather quickly!
CplKlinger
Senior Member
Very true! I've heard that from other participants as well. A friend of mine who works for a local transit service said that the agencies are trying to prevent cases where someone on a commuter route might tap "off" before the bus leaves the origin municipality in order to pay the cheaper local fare. But I think it's better to let some people cheat the system if it means making it better to use. Someone rode a Strathcona County bus, and its scanners activated as soon as the doors started to open. Hopefully ETS and the others follow suit!
Aww shucks, take a look in the mirror <3
DutchBoy
Active Member
I don't like that sort of edge-case thinking (also because I kind of want free transit). I say make the service as convenient as possible! That should be the #1 priority. More convenience = more ridership = more net revenue; most people aren't looking to cheat the system!
We don't have gates in the LRT system (thankfully)! Would we also crack down on very kind bus drivers who give people 2 hours instead of 1.5 on a transfer?
