Whattagame
Active Member
Unsupported marketing pitches generally accomplish the opposite of what is intended at SME-driven conferences.
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Alberta Politics
- Thread starter ION
- Start date
Gronk!
Senior Member
Alberta releases pension plan report, seeks 53% of CPP's assets, implementation could cost billions
"Due to Alberta’s younger population, higher pensionable earnings, and higher employment rates, contributions by Albertans to the CPP have historically exceeded the benefits paid to Albertans."
edmontonjournal.com
northlands
Senior Member
There is absolutely zero chance that if APP moved ahead that they would receive that 53% share of CPP. Even Jack Mintz noted this:
The Feds (and Canadians outside of AB/QC) aren't simply going to allow Alberta to walk away with the majority of the CPP fund. Full stop. They will (rightfully) fight tooth and nail to keep as much as possible, if not just out of spite, just like how Alberta is trying to leverage that they're going to take the maximum share... out of spite.
However, overall it's clear that as a country, we need to really evaluate our interprovincial and fed-provincial relations when topics like this start to gain steam.
The Feds (and Canadians outside of AB/QC) aren't simply going to allow Alberta to walk away with the majority of the CPP fund. Full stop. They will (rightfully) fight tooth and nail to keep as much as possible, if not just out of spite, just like how Alberta is trying to leverage that they're going to take the maximum share... out of spite.
However, overall it's clear that as a country, we need to really evaluate our interprovincial and fed-provincial relations when topics like this start to gain steam.
The_Cat
Senior Member
I’m guessing a greater percentage of Albertans exceed Yearly Maximum Pensionable Earnings (YMPE) compared to other provinces. You can claim the annual contributions as a non-refundable tax credit.
kcantor
Senior Member
^^^
From all that seems to be reported, the base line analysis seems to be how much is collected from Alberta for CPP and how much in benefits is paid out from CPP in Alberta. I’m not convinced that’s a complete or accurate analysis. If I work in Alberta and contribute to CPP and retire in BC or Nova Scotia or Ontario and receive my pension in one of those jurisdictions, that’s not a transfer from Alberta to any of those other jurisdictions. That’s simply me receiving the pension benefits my employer and I made on my behalf at the same contribution rates and payout rates as employers and employees make across the country (excepting Quebec).
If Alberta wants her share of contributions since CPP commenced, is she not also going to have the liability to all of those who receiving benefits earned in Alberta? Who is going to determine how much of those benefits were earned in Alberta or BC or Ontario for people who moved across the country over the course of their career?
What nonsense. As is all of this faux outrage/war on anything Ottawa. I’m a proud Albertan but being an Albertan is a distant second to being a proud Canadian.
From all that seems to be reported, the base line analysis seems to be how much is collected from Alberta for CPP and how much in benefits is paid out from CPP in Alberta. I’m not convinced that’s a complete or accurate analysis. If I work in Alberta and contribute to CPP and retire in BC or Nova Scotia or Ontario and receive my pension in one of those jurisdictions, that’s not a transfer from Alberta to any of those other jurisdictions. That’s simply me receiving the pension benefits my employer and I made on my behalf at the same contribution rates and payout rates as employers and employees make across the country (excepting Quebec).
If Alberta wants her share of contributions since CPP commenced, is she not also going to have the liability to all of those who receiving benefits earned in Alberta? Who is going to determine how much of those benefits were earned in Alberta or BC or Ontario for people who moved across the country over the course of their career?
What nonsense. As is all of this faux outrage/war on anything Ottawa. I’m a proud Albertan but being an Albertan is a distant second to being a proud Canadian.
David A
Senior Member
I haven't looked at this closely yet, but I am very skeptical that a province that makes up around 10% of the country's population now would somehow be entitled to over half of the CPP funds even with higher earnings and labour participation. There is a pensionable earnings cap on CPP contributions which is not that high, so most high earners reach that and the fund is built up from contributions since inception, when Alberta's population was even lower.
CplKlinger
Senior Member
God
Active Member
Being upset at the term “liberal indoctrination” being baseless and thrown around is valid. However, you’re doing the exact same thing when you say it’s used by the “far right” in a lazy way and singling out Trump and Smith as the far right. It’s just as baseless and just as lazy for you to name drop. You need to understand when a person has the title of premiere in the case of Smith, they have in some manor the majority of votes. So how can you be upset about “name-calling” but then go and call them “far right”? When a person is voted in by a majority you’ll often have an upset minority. What I’ll ask is. What’s your measure to determine if something is far right or far left? See the only right way to do it is to take a far left idea and a far right idea and find out what meeting in the middle looks like. Then you compare Smiths values to that “middle” value. However what I think you’re doing is comparing Smiths values to your values and as a result you find your values very far apart, but that doesn’t mean one or another’s values are far one way or another. The lesson here is to not bring politics into everything because I will destroy you at an intellectual level. I know what far right and far left is. My mom is Iranian (far right dictator) and my father left iraq during the Sadam Hussein regime and was wanted dead or alive because of it. My family has lived through both socialist societies and far right societies. As a result we walk this earth with the societal lessons that come with it. Smith isn’t far right by definition or anything else. If anything canada in general is way further left and headed further left than it ever has gone on the other end of the spectrum. Your values are your own but it’s a very liberal thing to project your uninvited values into a full room of people thinking everyone in that room shares your values. Go for a walk and think about it.
Glenco
Senior Member
Far right is a legitimate term to describe a political movement that is a long way from the centre.
en.wikipedia.org
Liberal or woke indoctrination is a myth contrived by the far right to divide and alienate their political opponents.
thehill.com
Far-right politics - Wikipedia
The myth of ‘woke’ indoctrination of students
Almost all the conservative claims about left-wing indoctrination are wrong.
thehill.com
ChazYEG
Senior Member
I agree 100% with the point that this line or argumentation is flawed and pointless.
I'll just disagree with the definition of far right point. These need to be, by the nature of the topic, contextualized. What is far right here may not be far right in the Middle East, or in the US.
I am Brazilian, of Portuguese descent. My great grandparents fled Portugal and Spain because of what was, then, a far right government (Franco and Salazar). By their standards, the military dictatorship Brazil lived through from the 1960s to the 1980s was not even considered right wing. However, my parents, and a whole generation of Brazilians, experienced them as such (and the military actually self proclaimed to be the leaders of a right wing movement). And their main ideological bias was, indeed, right wing (albeit, maybe not "far right" for the time). The people who took over the right-wing leadership in Brazil, and that for the past 10 years or so, have tried to mirror the military from the 60s through 80s, are now considered to be far right, because other right-wing movements are far more moderate than these folks.
By current Brazilian standards, for example, Canada is, as you described, generally very left leaning, but in the context of Canadian politics, Danielle Smith is as close to a far-right as you'll ever get. And then you have other right wing politicians who are considerably more moderate, such as the previous CPC leader, Erin O`Toole, or even Jason Kenney. In general, the voting base of the UCP and the CPC are somewhat more moderate than Smith, and her being elected Premier was a combination a many factors, including a sketchy leadership vote last year, and the fear mongering surrounding the NDP, which is viewed by some, especially in the more rural areas, as extremist left (even though, if you would put her alongside the likes of Justin Trudeau, she'd probably find herself to his right on many aspects). As much as Canada is more left leaning, on a global comparison, Alberta does deviate quite some from this, with even the most left leaning of the parties (the NDP) being to the right of their Federal counterparts.
In any case, back to the building (and may I suggest to the Mods that these past few messages be moved to the AB politics thread?)
kcantor
Senior Member
^^^^
posturing as in s-t-u-p-I-d.
posturing as in s-t-u-p-I-d.
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Whattagame
Active Member
How many boxes on the fascism checklist does one have to tick? I'm not being dramatic. You just have to review the typical characteristics of fascism, and yep, a lot of boxes are being ticked off by the current government. That Albertans voted for it doesn't make it not far right, your uncalibrated Overton window notwithstanding. You're also conflating the underlying ideology with the ability to execute that ideology which is probably where the appeal to authority is stemming from.
TravellingChris
Active Member
If you disagree with Smith's approach regarding these types of conferences, or oppose this particular trip, or have a better idea, why not get in touch with the provincial government? I'm sure they'd love to hear what you have to offer.
No matter what approach a particular administration takes, there will be a bunch of unelected armchair quarterbacks insisting they know better.
If Smith and Schulz didn't attend the event, people would be complaining that Alberta was not represented at an important international conference regarding a pressing global issue. ("The rest of the world is at the conference! Where's Danielle Smith? She's living in the fossil-fueled past!")
If Smith and Schulz didn't make the case for Alberta and the opportunities here while attending the conference, the same malcontents would be complaining that taxpayers funded their trip with no net benefit to the province ("Couldn't Smith just have attended the breakout sessions virtually and saved the airfare and hotel costs?" people would grumble.)
Now that Smith and Schulz have announced that their attendance and will make the case for investing in Alberta, people are STILL complaining.
Again, if you have better suggestions to make as to what the leadership should do, or can guide the provincial government to a more prudent course of action, please make your proposals known.
The_Cat
Senior Member
Do U CPP?
Whattagame
Active Member
What a glib response. Breaking down what you've said, apparently I can't take a position that opposes the government because I am not an elected official in the sitting government. That's an attitude that certain types of politicians rely on. One cannot say, while maintaining their integrity, that people would be outraged if Smith didn't go to COP28. The consternation stems from the knowledge that she has no business attending as a good-faith representative.
But you are right. If I just tell Danielle Smith that the devastating restrictions on the renewables industry imposed by her government were a bad idea for the myriad apparent reasons, I'm sure she'll quickly reverse course.