Toll Roads / Mileage Tax

[thommyjo]

If they're in Edmonton, wouldn't employment be a huge reason? Followed by shopping. These businesses do pay taxes. I know in Vancouver they talk about this quite a bit when discussing the residential vs. commercial and industrial tax burden. At least both City of Edmonton and Vancouver do a reasonable job not caving into regional demands to increase road capacity, but City of Edmonton also blundered by pulling out of regional transit.

Agreed, the businesses they work at pay taxes. But again, so do the businesses that Edmontonians work at….AND they pay property taxes.

A great example is when people talk about how the landscaping and parks are so much nicer in St. Albert. Why? Because they don’t have the same burden as Edmonton. Whereas if St Albert was just a neighborhood like Windermere (which it’s similar to in a million ways), then they would see a greater percentage of taxes having to go towards supportive housing, policing, fire departments responding to drug overdoses, transit, etc.

The reason a place like red deer isn’t as rich as St. Albert, is because it’s an actual city, independently carrying the costs of a real city. St. Albert isn’t a true city. It’s a suburb whose residents benefit from the high paying jobs, education opportunities, healthcare access, entertainment selection, and networks of a large city. That’s the only way St Albert maintains such a high average household income, it’s just a wealthy separatist suburb. An actual town of their size can’t have the jobs/amenities/lifestyle to sustain their quality of life.

They need to more fairly contribute to the central city that fosters their lifestyle.

 

[David A]

Agreed, the businesses they work at pay taxes. But again, so do the businesses that Edmontonians work at….AND they pay property taxes.

A great example is when people talk about how the landscaping and parks are so much nicer in St. Albert. Why? Because they don’t have the same burden as Edmonton. Whereas if St Albert was just a neighborhood like Windermere (which it’s similar to in a million ways), then they would see a greater percentage of taxes having to go towards supportive housing, policing, fire departments responding to drug overdoses, transit, etc.

The reason a place like red deer isn’t as rich as St. Albert, is because it’s an actual city, independently carrying the costs of a real city. St. Albert isn’t a true city. It’s a suburb whose residents benefit from the high paying jobs, education opportunities, healthcare access, entertainment selection, and networks of a large city. That’s the only way St Albert maintains such a high average household income, it’s just a wealthy separatist suburb. An actual town of their size can’t have the jobs/amenities/lifestyle to sustain their quality of life.

They need to more fairly contribute to the central city that fosters their lifestyle.

St. Albert doesn't have much of an industrial base and has higher property taxes. It seems to market itself as place where those who can afford that will also have some nicer things. And I suppose being suburban they do avoid many of the costs of social problems bigger cities have to bear.

It is very much a bedroom community, perhaps more so than the others around Edmonton, because of the lack of local industry. Many of the people who live there do travel to Edmonton or elsewhere in the region daily to work.

 

[TAS]

Agreed, the businesses they work at pay taxes. But again, so do the businesses that Edmontonians work at….AND they pay property taxes.

A great example is when people talk about how the landscaping and parks are so much nicer in St. Albert. Why? Because they don’t have the same burden as Edmonton. Whereas if St Albert was just a neighborhood like Windermere (which it’s similar to in a million ways), then they would see a greater percentage of taxes having to go towards supportive housing, policing, fire departments responding to drug overdoses, transit, etc.

The reason a place like red deer isn’t as rich as St. Albert, is because it’s an actual city, independently carrying the costs of a real city. St. Albert isn’t a true city. It’s a suburb whose residents benefit from the high paying jobs, education opportunities, healthcare access, entertainment selection, and networks of a large city. That’s the only way St Albert maintains such a high average household income, it’s just a wealthy separatist suburb. An actual town of their size can’t have the jobs/amenities/lifestyle to sustain their quality of life.

They need to more fairly contribute to the central city that fosters their lifestyle.

Further to the point above, the point I always remember was from the Strathcona County RCMP when their annual costs were shared at a public meeting I was at a few years ago. Policing costs that Strathcona County budgets were significantly lower than what a similar size city like Red Deer pays - and they noted that. They don't need to allocate as much to policing in Strathcona County as Edmonton takes on more of the burden of crime. Red Deer doesn't have an Edmonton at its border and so it sees more crime within its boundaries and more costs. Meanwhile Edmonton budgets the most per capita in Canada for policing while Strathcona County can happily spend money elsewhere.

 

[thommyjo]

Further to the point above, the point I always remember was from the Strathcona County RCMP when their annual costs were shared at a public meeting I was at a few years ago. Policing costs that Strathcona County budgets were significantly lower than what a similar size city like Red Deer pays - and they noted that. They don't need to allocate as much to policing in Strathcona County as Edmonton takes on more of the burden of crime. Red Deer doesn't have an Edmonton at its border and so it sees more crime within its boundaries and more costs. Meanwhile Edmonton budgets the most per capita in Canada for policing while Strathcona County can happily spend money elsewhere.

Yuuuup. It’s almost like our highest per capita policing might be linked to having one of the largest variances between our “city” pop and “region” pop. The more freeloading, the more costly. (On top of the province dumping all their jails in and around our city too )

 

[BASE]

Yuuuup. It’s almost like our highest per capita policing might be linked to having one of the largest variances between our “city” pop and “region” pop. The more freeloading, the more costly. (On top of the province dumping all their jails in and around our city too )

Regarding the population numbers I would argue Edmonton actually has one of the higher percentages of its regional population in the city itself. I think we are close to the ratios Ottawa has, less than Calgary, but more than Montreal, Vancouver, and Toronto which are all less than about half their metro population in the city itself.

 

[Gronk!]

Edmonton seeks additional provincial funding for road maintenance

The City of Edmonton is looking for more support from the province to help mantain its roads.

edmonton.ctvnews.ca

Edmonton's mayor says toll roads are off the table, so he needs more money from the province to help cover costs.

 

[thommyjo]

Regarding the population numbers I would argue Edmonton actually has one of the higher percentages of its regional population in the city itself. I think we are close to the ratios Ottawa has, less than Calgary, but more than Montreal, Vancouver, and Toronto which are all less than about half their metro population in the city itself.

Somewhat. The difference is where wealth exists. In all those cities, housing is significantly more, and incomes are much higher, in the central cities. In Toronto, so many people just drive down the highway until the housing is affordable. Whereas in Edmonton, much of our cheapest housing in central and many of our wealthiest communities are the exurbs. Same with Vancouver. The money is central. Surrey and Langley exploded due to people being priced out of Vancouver proper.

Their transit is also regional in those cities. And cities like Surrey, or regions like Durham, pay for their own police forces.

They also have higher transit fares based on zones and distances, in effect, a Toll to enter the city from outside.

They also have toll bridges and toll highways (407) to access the cities.

So while cities like Toronto and Vancouver have more of a regional population, I’d argue that’s because they have legitimate cities all around them. Surrey, Richmond, Mississauga, Hamilton etc are in a league of their own vs St. Albert or Sherwood park.

 

[BrettB]

I feel the need to point out that St. Albert was founded in 1861. So yes, it is now a bedroom community for Edmonton, but it wasn't always.

 

[thommyjo]

I feel the need to point out that St. Albert was founded in 1861. So yes, it is now a bedroom community for Edmonton, but it wasn't always.

Sure, but it’s growth was primarily fueled by its proximity to the city and the vast majority of its current population works or studies in Edmonton.

Spruce/stony I would see as separate communities much more based on workforce and physical distance. But St Albert since the 90s has essentially just been a neighborhood.