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Toll Roads / Mileage Tax

Should those workers who live in Edmonton and work in the Industrial Heartland be taxed extra by Strathcona/Sturgeon County? Should everyone who travels to the airport or works in Nisku be taxed more by Leduc County? Should those who work in Acheson be taxed more by Parkland County? Should southsiders be tolled/taxed more because they use the High Level/Walterdale Bridges more than those on the north side?

Edmonton is a regional hub for north and central Alberta, like it or not. Tit for tat tolls and taxes for the sake of owning the suburbanites would be a fools errand and incredibly difficult to roll out. What would you even toll? The stigma attached to such a program would likely cause more damage than the revenue gained. These are people that work and support business in the City.

Don't get me wrong, the Province should absolutely increase per capita infrastructure funding to account for this, especially with the rapidly increasing population.
 
I find the arguments put forward here for toll road or a similar tax somewhat humorous.

Here we have the same people arguing that people who live outside the city should somehow “pay more” that argue that residents in the city don’t pay their own way.

If the latter is true, wouldn’t we be better off encouraging more people to live outside the city than in, particularly when those businesses they visit to work or shop pay substantially more in commercial taxes than residents do.
 
The city can create the solution without causing issues like paying for toll roads by simply never expanding road capacity in areas that aren't already served by rapid transit. Freeways leading into the city shouldn't be built up either.

I do agree that the city shouldn't spend additional money to accommodate the destruction of city infrastructure. I also think the lack of fast regional transit in Alberta leads to problems like this.

The transit budget should be equal to the road budget, preferably with no additional capital expenditure on the total of the two combined.
 
husky said:
Should those workers who live in Edmonton and work in the Industrial Heartland be taxed extra by Strathcona/Sturgeon County? Should everyone who travels to the airport or works in Nisku be taxed more by Leduc County? Should those who work in Acheson be taxed more by Parkland County? Should southsiders be tolled/taxed more because they use the High Level/Walterdale Bridges more than those on the north side?

Edmonton is a regional hub for north and central Alberta, like it or not. Tit for tat tolls and taxes for the sake of owning the suburbanites would be a fools errand and incredibly difficult to roll out. What would you even toll? The stigma attached to such a program would likely cause more damage than the revenue gained. These are people that work and support business in the City.

Don't get me wrong, the Province should absolutely increase per capita infrastructure funding to account for this, especially with the rapidly increasing population.
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Did you read the article? If the use of infrastructure in both directions was equal, sure. But it’s not. It’s substantially disproportionate with Edmonton left subsidizing all the exurbanites. Not to mention all the others way Edmonton has to pick up the tab for the entire region (homelessness, transit, fire, police, Arena, all entertainment venues).

And it’d be different if we were like Calgary and only 10-15% of our region was exurbs. But we’re at 30%. Our region needs to carry the shared costs better. Not to mention all the provincial costs we’re also stuck with (ex. Increased crime due to placement of jails).
 
Offworld said:
Ultimately, probably the cleanest way to address the matter is disproportionately weight funding to Edmonton, and pound-for-pound diminish funding to the exurbs.

And don't get me started about the HAMLET of Sherwood Park. Talk about gaming the system.
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Issues like these do highlight a glaring issue with how municipalities are funded (i.e. majority being property tax revenues) which do not properly reflect usage, and often lags behind growth. Fort McMurray used to have this same issue but cranked up 50x, given all the folks driving/flying in, using town infrastructure, but paying basically nothing into it. Tolls on HWY 63 were considered but obviously the idea never went far.

That said, I get why Janz is highlighting this issue, but trying to frame it like this is one of the reasons for Edmonton's financial situation is comical. Sherwood Park, St Albert, Leduc, Spruce Grove, Acheson, etc all didn't pop up overnight.
 
If they're in Edmonton, wouldn't employment be a huge reason? Followed by shopping. These businesses do pay taxes. I know in Vancouver they talk about this quite a bit when discussing the residential vs. commercial and industrial tax burden. At least both City of Edmonton and Vancouver do a reasonable job not caving into regional demands to increase road capacity, but City of Edmonton also blundered by pulling out of regional transit.
 
Freedom of movement is fairly fundamental in most western societies. So, you can cite stats like the ones here to support increased funding for roads in the city or to bring up the issue.

But pressuring, moralizing, punishing or forcing people to live somewhere is not going to work and will only garner more resentment against the city's various attempts at social engineering.
 
I don't think toll roads violate any sort of right to travel, otherwise we'd all be opposed to transit fares on those grounds. I'm generally super in favour of toll roads and transit fares. I think the QE2 should be tolled.

I don't think it works in this scenario. I also think the UCP base loves road socialism too much. I think the NDP base feels the same at the provincial level.
 
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Barnaby said:
I don't think toll roads violate any sort of right to travel, otherwise we'd all be opposed to transit fares on those grounds. I'm generally super in favour of toll roads and transit fares. I think the QE2 should be tolled.

I don't think I works in this scenario. I also think the UCP base loves road socialism too much. I think the NDP base feels the same at the provincial level.
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They don't if they apply to everyone, but if it is put forth as some sort of charge just for people from out of town that is problematic.

However, particularly at this time when people already feel very squeezed, the public is really not looking for new ways to pay fees for services from government. And we don't have a history of toll roads in Alberta.

Anyone in municipal politics who thinks such an idea would improve their already abysmal popularity is very delusional.
 
Municipalities also don't have the authority to create toll roads right now in Alberta. The Province would need to allow for that authority by updating legislation, which seems like something that won't happen anytime soon.
 
is there a current method where people who own EVs pay an equivalent tax through charging stations that gasoline cars pay at the pump?
 
Yes there's going to be a $200 starting January 1, 2025. That's about the equivalent fuel tax of driving 20,000 km in a compact car, or 12,000 km in a full-size SUV or pickup.

I wonder if there will be rebates if fuel tax relief kicks in?
 
I understand where the sentiment comes from but it’s seems to ignore the benefits of having visitors come work, shop, & play in the city. If Edmonton did this others in the region might well follow and even if the numbers are less I don’t think that would make for a great experience for anyone.

Last thought I have is around the thought of per capita dollars invested by the province. Are we sure when all the investments are considered large cities like Calgary and Edmonton aren’t already coming out ahead in this regard?
 
BASE said:
I understand where the sentiment comes from but it’s seems to ignore the benefits of having visitors come work, shop, & play in the city. If Edmonton did this others in the region might well follow and even if the numbers are less I don’t think that would make for a great experience for anyone.

Last thought I have is around the thought of per capita dollars invested by the province. Are we sure when all the investments are considered large cities like Calgary and Edmonton aren’t already coming out ahead in this regard?
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Edmonton is NOT considering a toll or some kind of mileage tax.
 
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