Suburban Development and Sprawl

[Kosy123]

Oml, I was kind of in a suspended state between bursting out laughing and feeling a little bad and wanting to hear the idea out while reading this .The gut reaction side of me just wants to shout "BECAUSE THERE"S NOTHING INTERESTING ABOUT THE SUB-" but then I calm down and am like "Okay, they do have the right to tell their stories and I don't know, maybe there'll be some interesting perspectives presented here "

As someone from the suburbs beyond the Henday in the south...

I mean we have a new Superstore nearby? That's my stories from the suburbs submission!

 

[RH van der Rohe]

As someone from the suburbs beyond the Henday in the south...

I mean we have a new Superstore nearby? That's my stories from the suburbs submission!

Judging from my community FB page, #1 topic is lost pets, #2 people want empty bottles, #3 people hate the black/green bin, #4(seasonal) street/alley has not been plowed.

 

[EtoV]

That's lucky. The Next Door for my old community is almost exclusively "Have you seen this person walking around? Be on the lookout, I don't think they live here, they might be stealing things or trying to kidnap our children" followed by a vague, definitely not racist and classist description of the person that "proves" they are up to no good.

 

[Avenuer]

That's lucky. The Next Door for my old community is almost exclusively "Have you seen this person walking around? Be on the lookout, I don't think they live here, they might be stealing things or trying to kidnap our children" followed by a vague, definitely not racist and classist description of the person that "proves" they are up to no good.

Next Door is just Facebook for neighbours.

 

[thommyjo]

why do you all have to be so awful about the suburbs? you all sound elitist, the majority of Canadians live in suburbs?

I mean, this page is going to attract people passionate about good urban planning and design/architecture. Which the suburbs don’t have a ton of.

And idk if elitist is the right word? Maybe condescending? But I don’t think it’s elitist when most of our cities elite and most wealthy people live in suburbs. Or when the avg home price per neighbourhood is higher in most new suburbs than central neighbourhoods.

And many of us see suburbs as holding many negatives, that’s why we don’t like them. Same way if someone told me they didn’t like alcohol I’d be like, yeah, that’s fair. Not for everyone and has a great list of negative outcomes caused by it including harm to people, safety, mental health, children, etc.

I also think there’s a difference between good suburbs and most Edmonton suburbs. Most of ours are pretty rough and will only get worse the next 2 decades as traffic increases, gas gets taxed more, mature areas revitalize to be way more interesting and enjoyable than most currently “fancy new burbs”.

 

[Calfaer]

That's lucky. The Next Door for my old community is almost exclusively "Have you seen this person walking around? Be on the lookout, I don't think they live here, they might be stealing things or trying to kidnap our children" followed by a vague, definitely not racist and classist description of the person that "proves" they are up to no good.

Suburbs do have their very origin rooted in racism, classism, and segregation, so that does makes sense haha.

 

[Oilers99]

I mean, this page is going to attract people passionate about good urban planning and design/architecture. Which the suburbs don’t have a ton of.

And idk if elitist is the right word? Maybe condescending? But I don’t think it’s elitist when most of our cities elite and most wealthy people live in suburbs. Or when the avg home price per neighbourhood is higher in most new suburbs than central neighbourhoods.

And many of us see suburbs as holding many negatives, that’s why we don’t like them. Same way if someone told me they didn’t like alcohol I’d be like, yeah, that’s fair. Not for everyone and has a great list of negative outcomes caused by it including harm to people, safety, mental health, children, etc.

I also think there’s a difference between good suburbs and most Edmonton suburbs. Most of ours are pretty rough and will only get worse the next 2 decades as traffic increases, gas gets taxed more, mature areas revitalize to be way more interesting and enjoyable than most currently “fancy new burbs”.

The suburbs are not where the rich people live - they live in inner city (Glenora, Windsor Park, Skunk Hollow, Valleyview, etc.). The suburbs are now designed as entry level housing for people, through products such as zero lot line, townhouses and duplexes. Due to density requirements there are no longer luxury suburbs.

 

[soupcrate]

The suburbs are not where the rich people live - they live in inner city (Glenora, Windsor Park, Skunk Hollow, Valleyview, etc.). The suburbs are now designed as entry level housing for people, through products such as zero lot line, townhouses and duplexes. Due to density requirements there are no longer luxury suburbs.

From my understanding of things:

Rich people live in the suburbs and the desirable mature neighborhoods. There is plenty of entry level housing in our less desirable mature neighborhoods.

Well off folk that are blue collar tend to prefer the suburbs.

 

[Oilers99]

From my understanding of things:

Rich people live in the suburbs and the desirable mature neighborhoods. There is plenty of entry level housing in our less desirable mature neighborhoods.

Well off folk that are blue collar tend to prefer the suburbs.

This is a total incorrect generalization. There are various types of people living in the suburbs - both blue and white collar and people who are just purchasing their first entry level townhouse or duplex at $350k would not be considered well off. A lot of the sentiment here toward the suburbs is frankly completely incorrect, no wonder there is so much vitriol passed toward them.

 

[soupcrate]

This is a total incorrect generalization. There are various types of people living in the suburbs - both blue and white collar and people who are just purchasing their first entry level townhouse or duplex at $350k would not be considered well off. A lot of the sentiment here toward the suburbs is frankly completely incorrect, no wonder there is so much vitriol passed toward them.

You misunderstood me. I agree that folks of all stripes live in the suburbs.

What I meant is that well off blue collar folks buy expensive homes in the suburbs more often than expensive homes in mature neighborhoods. It just typically suits their lifestyle better (easy to have an RV, easier access to industrial areas, normally more storage) and there's a sort of self reinforcing status quo effect because the suburbs are where friends/co-workers typically buy.

I would expect that blue collar folks purchase skinny infill homes at a lower rate than the population at large.

This is just a generalization backed up by my personal anecdata, so I could be wrong. I don't mean any disrespect by it.

 

[tkoe_]

This is a total incorrect generalization. There are various types of people living in the suburbs - both blue and white collar and people who are just purchasing their first entry level townhouse or duplex at $350k would not be considered well off. A lot of the sentiment here toward the suburbs is frankly completely incorrect, no wonder there is so much vitriol passed toward them.

The problem with the vast majority of suburbs isn't that the people living there are less well off than people living in the core (which is also a totally incorrect characterization), the problem is that suburbs are generally auto-orientated, they are often cookie-cutter and lack authenticity, and they cost huge sums of public money to support and service. You can certainly believe that criticisms of modern suburbs are classist, but the fact is that there are real and legitimate criticisms of what is being built today.

 

[TAS]

the problem is that suburbs are generally auto-orientated, they are often cookie-cutter and lack authenticity, and they cost huge sums of public money to support and service.

To this point, I heard a Paths For People spokesperson on the radio today advocating for more city money be allocated for sidewalk/street winter clearing. As the city continues to sprawl, these costs go up. And yet these new neighbourhoods are more 'affordable' for people to buy, but not so affordable for the city to maintain. That needs to change.

And then you move into the urban neighbourhoods like Glenora or most recently Westmount this past week where many community residents fight medium density projects tooth and nail.

 

[thommyjo]

The suburbs are not where the rich people live - they live in inner city (Glenora, Windsor Park, Skunk Hollow, Valleyview, etc.). The suburbs are now designed as entry level housing for people, through products such as zero lot line, townhouses and duplexes. Due to density requirements there are no longer luxury suburbs.

Bro. I literally grew up in multi million dollar homes in Windermere. Of course glenora and those places are expensive too. But there are dozens of 4+ million dollar homes in Windermere, jagar, keswick, etc.

And there’s also housing types. Detached homes in say an area like 149st-178st from whitemud to stony vs the same N/S outside the henday….much higher avg sale price outside the henday.

Yes the river valley creates a dozen or so desirable areas around the university and downtown with high value homes. But there are MANY luxury homes in the suburbs and they continue to be built. Again, go to Windermere, chapelle, keswick. Tons of stock over 800k.

If you read real estate reports, outside of the river valley core areas that sell high, the whole outer henday ring sells for more than the inner henday ring. Summerside beats mill woods. Windemere beats river bend. Jagar beats blue quill. Lewis estates beats la pearl. St. Albert beats britisnna youngstown. Anything north of 140th ave beats south of it basically.

 

[Oilers99]

Bro. I literally grew up in multi million dollar homes in Windermere. Of course glenora and those places are expensive too. But there are dozens of 4+ million dollar homes in Windermere, jagar, keswick, etc.

And there’s also housing types. Detached homes in say an area like 149st-178st from whitemud to stony vs the same N/S outside the henday….much higher avg sale price outside the henday.

Yes the river valley creates a dozen or so desirable areas around the university and downtown with high value homes. But there are MANY luxury homes in the suburbs and they continue to be built. Again, go to Windermere, chapelle, keswick. Tons of stock over 800k.

If you read real estate reports, outside of the river valley core areas that sell high, the whole outer henday ring sells for more than the inner henday ring. Summerside beats mill woods. Windemere beats river bend. Jagar beats blue quill. Lewis estates beats la pearl. St. Albert beats britisnna youngstown. Anything north of 140th ave beats south of it basically.

Thank you for pointing out that you grew up in multi-million dollar homes in Windermere. The new subdivisions that meet the city's density requirements are catering to that type of product. Nonetheless, you obviously have some serious anger toward the suburbs. I am not trying to change your mind, I was pointing out the fact that the disdain for those that live there is strange.

 

[itom987]

Almost every suburban stormwater management pond has expensive houses lined around them. The entire length of the river valley system also has expensive houses along both sides.
Aside from that, suburban development is far more mixed in housing styles and budgets than your typical inner ring road neighbourhood.