IanO
Superstar
So just in time to redo the recently completed sections?
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Jasper Avenue New Vision / Imagine Jasper Avenue
- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
CplKlinger
Senior Member
Such is the Edmonton way. Just to clarify though, I'd much rather see all stretches of Jasper Ave redone ASAP. But I'm not missing sleep over the delay, simply because I think the new design doubles down on poor practices that we should be moving away from.
Edmonchuk
Active Member
Are you launching a space shuttle to Mars?? How long should we wait to get the crumbling roads and sidewalks in downtown fixed?
I have a great new moto for Edmontonians, “if you haven’t touched your crumbling infrastructure for 50 years and don’t want to fix it, blame it on winter, it’s the most Edmonton thing you can do”
CplKlinger
Senior Member
Where did I say we *should* wait? I didn't. I'm just trying to be hopeful that there's a chance something positive might come out of the delays. If it's going to happen, let it happen soon. But I'm not going to be happy if we see a stroad like this being built in 10 years when it should have been done now, and replaced with something better later. It's like Chinese water torture, but with a stroad instead.
Gronk!
Senior Member
The Valley Line LRT will be completed by 2027 or so, which includes a demolition/rebuild of the bridge over Groat Road. That's why I would rather wait for Jasper Ave rehab to occur after 2027 due to the traffic from the west end that will need to use 102 Ave and Jasper Ave to get to/from downtown. However, I am under the impression that this is falling on deaf ears around here, that the Jasper Ave rehab must be done right now and to hell with all that west-end traffic.
Didama
Active Member
So what you're saying is that the neighbourhoods you drive through to get to work (from your chosen place to live in the 'burbs) should just deal with failing sidewalk infrastructure for another 5+ years because it'll make your commute a little bit easier. Did I get that right?
archited
Senior Member
Not all ears are deaf! I agree with you 100%!
ChazYEG
Senior Member
It's not a matter of deaf ears... I agree with @Didama. Especially the sidewalks can become fairly dangerous during the winter. Not to mention the ever growing number of huge potholes, that will also impact drivers lives... And then there is also the issue of never-ending construction. It's been going on for how many years, now? add in more 5 for the LRT, then another at least 2 or 3 for Jasper... We'd be gaming for what? 20 years straight of construction disrupting life in the area?
We should bite this bullet and deal with a few years of bad traffic, not keep waiting forever.
Didama
Active Member
And I don't mean to sound obtuse; it's a fair question you asked, Gronk! But it does amuse/annoy me when people buy houses in the far flung suburbs and then complain when not absolutely everything is done to speed up/facilitate your commute back to downtown. There are neighbourhoods along your commute full of people who chose to live closer to downtown and they have rights too. You gave up your right to an easy commute when you moved to the burbs. My $0.02.
Gronk!
Senior Member
FYI @Didama I proudly live and work downtown but I am sympathetic to those who commune from the suburbs into downtown. They include my co-workers, managers and peers, those who work in downtown retail, gyms, fast food, restaurants and bars, health care professionals who work at downtown clinics, tradespeople, transit and taxi drivers, realtors, athletes and people from the business, arts, sports and political sectors. Did I miss anyone?
archited
Senior Member
And on top of that there are a sufficient number of high-rise projects proposed that are fronting onto Jasper Avenue. It seems expedient for some of these to be completed before rebuilding the road and adjacent infrastructure rather than having new work torn up in the short term to accommodate the Avenue rebuild.
Didama
Active Member
That's fair. And they have a choice of where they chose to live. If they chose the 'burbs, there will be certain inconveniences when it comes to commuting and they should be aware of that before they move. If those folks move to the 'burbs and expect their commuting convenience to be put ahead of my neighbourhood's quality of life, then I have an issue with that (and so should you probably ;-))
Didama
Active Member
If those project where anywhere near actually being built, perhaps. If we followed this logic we could wait another ten years, at least, before undertaking the required work. Sections of Jasper Ave wouldn't be out of place in Kabul, so I no I don't think we can wait another 10 years.
TAS
Senior Member
One of the world's leading traffic and transportation experts - Sam Schwartz - has a book many here may have read called Street Smart - the rise of cities and fall of cars. In one chapter he shares his time as NYC traffic commissioner and in 1973 the bridge on the West Side Highway leading into Manhattan's central business district collapsed. 80,000 vehicles a day travelled that bridge. So what solution did NYC come up with to help accommodate or redirect those 80,000 vehicles per day?
Says Schwartz "I would love to take credit for coming up with a brilliant solution that saved the city, but the truth is a lot more mundane and a lot more interesting. The predicted traffic disaster never appeared. Somehow those 80,000 cars went somewhere, but to this day we have no idea where. Or how, two years later, 25,000 more people were getting into Manhattan's central business district."
Finally he says:
"When a road's capacity is reduced, congestion doesn't necessarily increase. In fact the biggest and best study of reduction in road capacity shows that lane closures not only cause traffic to decrease on the road's remaining lanes, but only half the decrease reappears anywhere else."
"If you unbuild it, they will go away."
But of course Edmonton is a different city from everywhere else right? Other cities aren't like the issues we have here.
That's the line he says people typically use in opposition.
occidentalcapital
Senior Member
I used to agree with the induced demand thing, but how far do you go? Eventually, if you have no roads, you will have 0 cars, but that seems ridiculous. For Jasper Ave, a reduction is appropriate. Elsewhere, the induced demand theory seems to be to have a built in flaw.