High Level Bridge Streetcar / ERRS

[Daveography]

While I would support donating at least one old U2 to ERRS for posterity, I'm not sure they would be able to operate it like the other streetcars given that the U2s we have aren't designed for street-boarding operation.

It's not an insurmountable problem, but probably more trouble than it would be worth to solve.

I also miss the pac-man ETS logo.

 

[tkoe_]

Some shots from today. They've been laying the new platform over the last week:

View attachment 295445

I know it isn't exactly the same thing, but what strikes me about this photo is how simple the infrastructure is for building this extension. Can you imagine if some of the old rail ROWs were resurrected for streetcars to restore connectivity between downtown and Calder or Alberta Avenue, for example? I would much rather have minimal stations and streetscaping with a quicker build-out.

Anyway, kudos to these volunteers for making this happen. This extension will be a huge profile boost for them to be on right on Whyte.

 

[Friendmonton]

This will be fantastic for the area. Will they add a controlled crossing over the street? Lots of traffic and I’d want them to cross safely. A few times I’ve experienced some close calls on the streetcar.

 

[Platinum107]

Also, hot take: the ETS pac man roundel Logo is 1000x better than the drab "let's make our logo just our name in Arial-Heavy-Bold-Italic, the more generic the better" thing we have now. I genuinely, not at all being crazy or funny here, think we could slap a silver Pac Man logo on our existing trains and buses and they would look more modern and characteristic than they do now. Bring back the Pac Man!

Omg I miss that whole aesthetic ETS had back then! I wish that with new LRTs and busses in the future they could make a new livery based off of the old one, with the diagonal lines and all that but in dark blue and grey instead of turquoise and white. I should try drawing some of this for you guys to see what I'm talking about...

 

[Macroman520]

All this talk about the U2s brings back memories. Luckily, I'm just old enough to remember them in their original paint scheme with the split-arrow logo, and don't forget the glorious New Look trolley buses too, before they were refurbished or taken out of service.

Ideally I would like to see the ERRS extended north, across Jasper Avenue, as far as 104 Avenue. The right-of-way still exists, and it would then connect MacEwan, the University (ish), and Whyte Avenue. I think it could fill a niche transporting university students between Downtown and Old Strathcona, and its northern terminus would then connect nicely with the valley line west when it's completed. Only problem I can see is crossing Jasper...

 

[archited]

Rail + Pedestrian + Bike Bridge.

 

[ChazYEG]

All this talk about the U2s brings back memories. Luckily, I'm just old enough to remember them in their original paint scheme with the split-arrow logo, and don't forget the glorious New Look trolley buses too, before they were refurbished or taken out of service.

Ideally I would like to see the ERRS extended north, across Jasper Avenue, as far as 104 Avenue. The right-of-way still exists, and it would then connect MacEwan, the University (ish), and Whyte Avenue. I think it could fill a niche transporting university students between Downtown and Old Strathcona, and its northern terminus would then connect nicely with the valley line west when it's completed. Only problem I can see is crossing Jasper...

I don't see crossing Jasper Ave as a problem, much more of an opportunity to make a big change in how we treat our Main Street.
Jasper doesn't need to be a thoroughfare, actually, it shouldn't.

It should be a destination street and having something disrupt traffic would create a big opportunity to rethink its role, as it would create more congestion, make people search for alternative routes and free Jasper Ave to have less car lanes, maybe a bike lane, larger sidewalks with patios for businesses, etc...

 

[IanO]

Which is exactly was is happening from 97-124st with New Vision and Reimagine Jasper.

 

[_Citizen_Dane_]

I don't see crossing Jasper Ave as a problem, much more of an opportunity to make a big change in how we treat our Main Street.
Jasper doesn't need to be a thoroughfare, actually, it shouldn't.

It should be a destination street and having something disrupt traffic would create a big opportunity to rethink its role, as it would create more congestion, make people search for alternative routes and free Jasper Ave to have less car lanes, maybe a bike lane, larger sidewalks with patios for businesses, etc...

Yeah, it shouldn't be too big a problem. Jasper still dips from where the old CPR bridge was, so the clearance is there. Couple that with the fact that the shopping centre at 109th and Jasper was apperently developed to have a spot for a replacement bridge at some point. (If that was the case, I'd assume that's about here, where the pathway is, given that's approximately where the old bridge alignment was.)

I'll be honest though, I'll believe it when I see it. Plans have been in the works since 1992 and we still haven't got it:

If only we listened to these guys:

 

[ChazYEG]

Which is exactly was is happening from 97-124st with New Vision and Reimagine Jasper.

No, it isn't. What's happening is a half-baked initiative that isn't actually going to do much to change things.

Cars are still the biggest players, there's no priority to transit (what about simple dedicated lanes? Is it too hard to do?), benches and planters are not going to do much by themselves, the sidewalks are not nearly wide enough and there's nothing that makes pedestrians and patrons of the business on the street feel safer and more comfortable walking and seating in patios and, on top of everything, the IMBECILE decision of keeping the bike lanes (and bike racks) out of the main streets, Jasper above all, does nothing to help the businesses on these streets.

Essentially, it's make-up on a pig.

 

[Macroman520]

Yeah, it shouldn't be too big a problem. Jasper still dips from where the old CPR bridge was, so the clearance is there. Couple that with the fact that the shopping centre at 109th and Jasper was apperently developed to have a spot for a replacement bridge at some point. (If that was the case, I'd assume that's about here, where the pathway is, given that's approximately where the old bridge alignment was.)

Oh right, I forgot about the dip. It seems that the western edge of that shopping centre exactly follows the old track alignment, being offset several degrees from a right angle. Replacing a bridge where the right-of-way still exists doesn't seem half bad...

 

[IanO]

No, it isn't. What's happening is a half-baked initiative that isn't actually going to do much to change things.

Cars are still the biggest players, there's no priority to transit (what about simple dedicated lanes? Is it too hard to do?), benches and planters are not going to do much by themselves, the sidewalks are not nearly wide enough and there's nothing that makes pedestrians and patrons of the business on the street feel safer and more comfortable walking and seating in patios and, on top of everything, the IMBECILE decision of keeping the bike lanes (and bike racks) out of the main streets, Jasper above all, does nothing to help the businesses on these streets.

Essentially, it's make-up on a pig.

Oddly enough, I'd disagree.

The reality is that this is trying to balance an arterial with a Main Street and while I am vehemently opposed to hybrid cars, models, plans, it is going to be a vast improvement and ticks most boxes for most people.

We have great bike lanes E/W on 102 Avenue and 100ave.

Buses should get signal and priority pullout, but otherwise is fine with the new plans.

There will be room for cafe patios and even some extensions; we simply need to commit to being outside more often and more regularly.

 

[ChazYEG]

Oddly enough, I'd disagree.

The reality is that this is trying to balance an arterial with a Main Street and while I am vehemently opposed to hybrid cars, models, plans, it is going to be a vast improvement and ticks most boxes for most people.

We have great bike lanes E/W on 102 Avenue and 100ave.

Buses should get signal and priority pullout, but otherwise is fine with the new plans.

There will be room for cafe patios and even some extensions; we simply need to commit to being outside more often and more regularly.

I'll love to have this same discussion five years from now, when the make-up starts wearing out.

100 and 102 avenues are not the ones with storefronts that would benefit the most from having bike riders passing by, or having the bike racks close by. Especially between 109 and 124 street, 102 ave is strictly residential (so is 100 ave, which doesn't have a bike lane, by the way).

The new Jasper Ave sidewalks provide no buffer between traffic lanes and pedestrians, other than parked cars (which are not always there). It's not just a matter of space, but of safety and comfort and, in this case, it does not suffice to be safe, it needs to appear safe, to sit on tables and have coffee (or beer, who's controlling, right?), walk relaxed, etc, and the way it's being done, it doesn't feel or appear safe and comfortable enough to actually encourage anyone to do that.

Also, I hold on to my belief that Jasper Avenue should decide between being a Main Street or an arterial road. I think Edmonton would benefit a lot more from a Jasper that is a complete and attractive Main Street, as we have the option of 104 street being a much more efficient E-W corridor to link the downtown core to the rest of the city.

And before the argument that it will be extremely congested is raised, for once, congestion on Jasper Ave is not a bad thing, if it's a Main Street, and 104 street will have a service level that is more than enough to absorb the extra traffic, especially considering that the whole investment in public transit is supposed to reduce traffic, in the long haul.

 

[archited]

Well said @ChazYEG!

 

[Avenuer]

I'll love to have this same discussion five years from now, when the make-up starts wearing out.

100 and 102 avenues are not the ones with storefronts that would benefit the most from having bike riders passing by, or having the bike racks close by. Especially between 109 and 124 street, 102 ave is strictly residential (so is 100 ave, which doesn't have a bike lane, by the way).

The new Jasper Ave sidewalks provide no buffer between traffic lanes and pedestrians, other than parked cars (which are not always there). It's not just a matter of space, but of safety and comfort and, in this case, it does not suffice to be safe, it needs to appear safe, to sit on tables and have coffee (or beer, who's controlling, right?), walk relaxed, etc, and the way it's being done, it doesn't feel or appear safe and comfortable enough to actually encourage anyone to do that.

Also, I hold on to my belief that Jasper Avenue should decide between being a Main Street or an arterial road. I think Edmonton would benefit a lot more from a Jasper that is a complete and attractive Main Street, as we have the option of 104 street being a much more efficient E-W corridor to link the downtown core to the rest of the city.

And before the argument that it will be extremely congested is raised, for once, congestion on Jasper Ave is not a bad thing, if it's a Main Street, and 104 street will have a service level that is more than enough to absorb the extra traffic, especially considering that the whole investment in public transit is supposed to reduce traffic, in the long haul.

To clarify, 100 Avenue has bike lanes from 103 to 110 Streets and there are are at least plans in the new Bike Plan to extend them west to 116 Street. I do agree bike lanes on Jasper would've been great, as the ROW width definitely can support them.