J123 | 99.06m | 30s | Streamliner | DIALOG

What do you think of this project?


  • Total voters
    31
That is not the point I'm trying to make. As a city, we just don't attract super income or wealthy population in general like Toronto or Vancouver- even Montreal is out of that game and Calgary. We can only sustain so much of clienteles that don't require incentives to move in for money is relatively a non-issue with them. The point you used is valid in our perspective, but when analyzing that against larger wealthy markets - which was done when referencing GTA, it supports my position. The fact that incentives removed caused renters to vacate whereas this wouldn't occur in GTA or Van. Now, 'mismanagement' is a whole different topic entirely.
This use to be true, not so much anymore. I know a lot of people from Ontario & BC moving to AB currently because of housing market to income ratio.

Infact there is a Toronto based developer in Calgary just about to break ground on a new condo who sold out their presales in a sales center they only opened in downtown Toronto
 
That is not the point I'm trying to make. As a city, we just don't attract super income or wealthy population in general like Toronto or Vancouver- even Montreal is out of that game and Calgary. We can only sustain so much of clienteles that don't require incentives to move in for money is relatively a non-issue with them. The point you used is valid in our perspective, but when analyzing that against larger wealthy markets - which was done when referencing GTA, it supports my position. The fact that incentives removed caused renters to vacate whereas this wouldn't occur in GTA or Van. Now, 'mismanagement' is a whole different topic entirely.
I wasn't debating that the 'super wealthy' people aren't primarily attracted to Toronto and Vancouver, that's well known. But those numbers are generally small when compared to their overall markets. My point is that the 'higher' rents that are supported by buildings such as Maclaren and others aren't 'high end', it's that the market will pay a little more PSF in quality buildings in quality locations like west Oliver/124 St/Glenora (you can add the University area as well). However, in general, Edmontonians and Calgarians don't have to chew into as much of their income on housing given that both cities have the highest median/disposable incomes compared to any of the other major cities in the country.
 
This use to be true, not so much anymore. I know a lot of people from Ontario & BC moving to AB currently because of housing market to income ratio.

Infact there is a Toronto based developer in Calgary just about to break ground on a new condo who sold out their presales in a sales center they only opened in downtown Toronto
I think you're confusing 'wealthy' and 'mobile middle class' which the latter are choosing to move to Alberta - primarily Calgary and Edmonton, because of cheaper housing and plenty of well paying/good jobs. The 'wealthy' cohort can live where ever they really want and that cohort will often choose to live in 'global hubs' such as NYC, LA, London, Paris. In the Canadian context it's Vancouver or Toronto.
 
I think you're confusing 'wealthy' and 'mobile middle class' which the latter are choosing to move to Alberta - primarily Calgary and Edmonton, because of cheaper housing and plenty of well paying/good jobs. The 'wealthy' cohort can live where ever they really want and that cohort will often choose to live in 'global hubs' such as NYC, LA, London, Paris. In the Canadian context it's Vancouver or Toronto.
no, I'm with you. Like you said, uber wealthy can and will live anywhere and have multiple places. the "working" class out of Toronto are buying up condo's and getting out of there.

They are selling their condos they bought for $1,000,000+ and buying for $500,000 plus potentially making more income in Alberta.

I think they novelty of living in places like Toronto and Vancouver is wearing thin when you're hardly able to pay all your bills
 
First, I think first of all comparing us to a city twice as large and another even larger than that is a fairly meaningless comparison.

Second, if I was super wealthy, Toronto would not be my choice to live in unless I had to for work, which is probably true for a number of middle class people too. However, high cost of housing there is causing the squeezed middle class there to look seriously elsewhere or cash out if they have built up a lot of equity, particularly those that have flexibility as to where they can live or work. If you are super wealthy, this doesn't much matter, you probably just stay where are you until you retire or move for other reasons, so the market for super wealthy moving from Toronto to other cities is going to be limited.
 
This use to be true, not so much anymore. I know a lot of people from Ontario & BC moving to AB currently because of housing market to income ratio.

Infact there is a Toronto based developer in Calgary just about to break ground on a new condo who sold out their presales in a sales center they only opened in downtown Toronto
What you stated regarding migration to Alberta is true, but I'm not referring to populations that are of normal income. Vancouver and Toronto are cities wealthy newcomers will choose not Edmonton, Calgary or Montreal therefor higher quality will not require incentives for them to move in or purchase.
 
What you stated regarding migration to Alberta is true, but I'm not referring to populations that are of normal income. Vancouver and Toronto are cities wealthy newcomers will choose not Edmonton, Calgary or Montreal therefor higher quality will not require incentives for them to move in or purchase.
This is true to a degree, however its not a demographic any city needs to strive to attract. Its a very small % of people and the people with that kind of money go where ever they can make money. I was at the Marriot lounge bar a couple months ago and met a guy who bought a condo in the sky residences just because he comes to Edmonton for a week every 2-3 months. Their incentives are places they can make more money, not necessarily the "attractions" of the city.
 
This use to be true, not so much anymore. I know a lot of people from Ontario & BC moving to AB currently because of housing market to income ratio.

Infact there is a Toronto based developer in Calgary just about to break ground on a new condo who sold out their presales in a sales center they only opened in downtown Toronto
Gives impression of Torontonians being taken advantage of. I guess it really is just a crazy market out there. Anecdotally, I have heard about many GTA people moving to Edmonton in recent months, all are amazed at the fact they can actually afford a nice place here.
 
This is true to a degree, however its not a demographic any city needs to strive to attract. Its a very small % of people and the people with that kind of money go where ever they can make money. I was at the Marriot lounge bar a couple months ago and met a guy who bought a condo in the sky residences just because he comes to Edmonton for a week every 2-3 months. Their incentives are places they can make more money, not necessarily the "attractions" of the city.
Exactly, they make a big splash, but they are a small % of people, even in cities like Toronto. Everyone notices the Lamborghini driving around, but not the 10 or 20 other average cars on the road at the same time.

Also, they tend to gravitate to larger cities. I love those magazine articles that rank cities based on "livability", but somehow completely leave out affordability. It's not so great or liveable for all the people who can't afford it. I recall visiting a friend of friend who loved Vancouver, but his tiny bachelor apartment was quite frankly depressing. He ended up moving back here and I think he was happier.
 
This is true to a degree, however its not a demographic any city needs to strive to attract. Its a very small % of people and the people with that kind of money go where ever they can make money. I was at the Marriot lounge bar a couple months ago and met a guy who bought a condo in the sky residences just because he comes to Edmonton for a week every 2-3 months. Their incentives are places they can make more money, not necessarily the "attractions" of the city

The empty lot god giveth and taketh away. A cruel god.
You spelt DOG wrong though. Regency, the other culprit giveth us twice.
 
I think you're confusing 'wealthy' and 'mobile middle class' which the latter are choosing to move to Alberta - primarily Calgary and Edmonton, because of cheaper housing and plenty of well paying/good jobs. The 'wealthy' cohort can live where ever they really want and that cohort will often choose to live in 'global hubs' such as NYC, LA, London, Paris. In the Canadian context it's Vancouver or Toronto.
Exactly.

Do people think $2000 is somehow luxury? A couple who both make 50k (which are pretty low salaries) are taking home 6k a month after taxes. 2/6 is the 33% CMHC often uses as a benchmark for housing costs.

Add in the fact that utilities in an apartment are cheaper, and that they likely own only 1 car, if any, and likely spend less on gas….

These new towers are nowhere near upper class prices. Your average household income in Edmonton is above 100k. 2-3k a month for good new rental buildings with strong amenities in good locations is a middle class product.

I know tons of students splitting 2bdrms with a roommate for 1800 in these new builds. 900/month is a cheapo 1bdrm basement suite in a suburb.
 
Not sure if this was posted yet, but the J123 site is now up for sale

1697683642823.png
 

Back
Top