ICE District Phase 2 | 149.95m | ?s | ICE District Prop.

dunno said:
Maybe that's the plan for Phase II, but it seems like if Katz was going to be able to pull in a Hys or Lululemon, he would've already done so for Phase I, which is kind of the 'crown jewel' of the development, around the plaza, and more readily connected to the existing core.
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I think it could still be the case, but with more residents to support it, it would be easier to make the case. Phase II is supposed to be mainly residential, instead of commercial, so maybe with that added density, it would be easier to have some of these things to come to ICE District Phase I, which still has plenty of retail spaces available.

I also think that one big miss on ICE district Phase I is the lack of a nightclub/lounge (maybe more than one), as well as something like a Rec Room, considering that this is supposed to be an entertainment district. Maybe the additional residents we'll see in the area with Phase II and Stationlands (as well as DT as a whole) will help make the case for these, as well.
 
ChazYEG said:
I think it could still be the case, but with more residents to support it, it would be easier to make the case. Phase II is supposed to be mainly residential, instead of commercial, so maybe with that added density, it would be easier to have some of these things to come to ICE District Phase I, which still has plenty of retail spaces available.

I also think that one big miss on ICE district Phase I is the lack of a nightclub/lounge (maybe more than one), as well as something like a Rec Room, considering that this is supposed to be an entertainment district. Maybe the additional residents we'll see in the area with Phase II and Stationlands (as well as DT as a whole) will help make the case for these, as well.
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All I keep thinking about with regards to the lacklustre retail offerings in Ice (or even the wider Downtown) is that if there was a will, there would be a way. In the '80s, when Portage Place was built in Downtown Winnipeg, Cadillac Fairview negotiated sweetheart deals to lure attractive tenants such as favourable tenancies in other, thriving malls or lower leases in Portage Place. That went out the window after CF left the property in the '90s.

More recently, I've been learning about billionare Dan Gilbert's impact on Downtown Detroit over the past decade. He has bought and fixed up many formerly dilapidated buildings, converting them to hotels, apartments, condos, and luring offices. At street-level, he's been instrumental in getting destination retailers like Lululemon, Warby Parker, Gucci, and H&M downtown. And not in a mall, either -- streetfront. While many Canadian cities lack a billionaire like Gilbert, we don't. Arguably Katz already started this process with Ice District, but I cannot see why someone with his wealth or connections couldn't lure a Rec Room or Keg or Lululemon to his property if he wanted to. We see the Ghermezians do this already with WEM. Instead he's poo-pooed a McDonald's in favour of a bunch of bank storefronts. Incredible.
 
dunno said:
All I keep thinking about with regards to the lacklustre retail offerings in Ice (or even the wider Downtown) is that if there was a will, there would be a way. In the '80s, when Portage Place was built in Downtown Winnipeg, Cadillac Fairview negotiated sweetheart deals to lure attractive tenants such as favourable tenancies in other, thriving malls or lower leases in Portage Place. That went out the window after CF left the property in the '90s.

More recently, I've been learning about billionare Dan Gilbert's impact on Downtown Detroit over the past decade. He has bought and fixed up many formerly dilapidated buildings, converting them to hotels, apartments, condos, and luring offices. At street-level, he's been instrumental in getting destination retailers like Lululemon, Warby Parker, Gucci, and H&M downtown. And not in a mall, either -- streetfront. While many Canadian cities lack a billionaire like Gilbert, we don't. Arguably Katz already started this process with Ice District, but I cannot see why someone with his wealth or connections couldn't lure a Rec Room or Keg or Lululemon to his property if he wanted to. We see the Ghermezians do this already with WEM. Instead he's poo-pooed a McDonald's in favour of a bunch of bank storefronts. Incredible.
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Please Mr Katz, all I want is my mcnuggies. 🥺
 
If Edmonton is serious about continuing to try to get people to live downtown then they’ll have get serious about not only more high rise apartments and mid rise apartments, but also the shopping infrastructure that was mentioned here in this thread ! Don’t know why but I’m not sure Edmonton is as totally dedicated to any of this?
 
MetroEd said:
If Edmonton is serious about continuing to try to get people to live downtown then they’ll have get serious about not only more high rise apartments and mid rise apartments, but also the shopping infrastructure that was mentioned here in this thread ! Don’t know why but I’m not sure Edmonton is as totally dedicated to any of this?
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They need to stop making it the default part of the city for all of the city's social services. These services and facilities are necessary and I 100% support them, but downtown will never become an attractive destination if it also has to host all of them.
 
Does anyone know when phase 2 is supposed to start now? And is the city moving the homeless situation?
 
I would not expect anything to start on these lots for some time given the location and market.
 
I would like to buy an apartment building in that area but I’m wondering if it will sky rocket in 5 years or 10. It’s a good investment either way but when that phase 2 starts, I bet the property value will double. Has anyone heard of any start dates or schedule planning?
 
Interest rates are high. Building costs are high. Social issues in the area are challenging. Condo market is nearly dead.

Don’t expect anything for maybe 5 years. West downtown Ice District has a better of chance of starting with new towers but even that’s a stretch. SFHs remain the most attractive product in Edmonton in the near and mid term.

So, don’t hold your breath.
 
^^
if property as in land values does double, it will simply get back to previous levels and won’t have much of an impact on end unit values.

end unit values for new construction aren’t going to double. those don’t fluctuate as much as they tend to get built or not based on being able to achieve minimum retiring thresholds (ie it’s binary, not linear).

if property as in existing unit values doubles, again it will simply be getting back to previous levels but there is lots of pain left before olds see much gain.

unless you have lots of very patient speculative cash available, this is as good a time as any to buy for your own use rather than renting but not for investment purposes if you’re taking individual units. If you’re talking about a rental building - say an older walk up - that’s a pretty competitive market without too many bargains in it.

good luck in whatever you decide to pursue, just remember that for the foreseeable future (ie the time frames you noted) that cash will be king and you will be competing against some very deep pockets who likely have a more attractive tax structure than you.

ps. i agree that sfh’s are likely the most attractive and least riskiest segments in the current market from an investment perspective.
 
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In the November 1 Executive Committee meeting there's a request to reschedule a report titled Feasibility Study - Village At ICE District Lands. Anyone know what that's about? Do private developments typically get council reports prepared like that?
 
husky said:
In the November 1 Executive Committee meeting there's a request to reschedule a report titled Feasibility Study - Village At ICE District Lands. Anyone know what that's about? Do private developments typically get council reports prepared like that?
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Not unless there is a significant public interest component to it. I'm not sure what this might be.
 
cmd uw said:
Not unless there is a significant public interest component to it. I'm not sure what this might be.
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I know that the Premier had mentioned the development when talking about the Calgary arena deal and how the province could potentially look to help with something like that to sort of make Edmonton "whole" (not sure what the province would do, infrastructure?). I wonder if it's something of that nature.
 
Very interesting indeed...

Well, we know that their discussions about a 'sports centre of excellence', I could also imagine other creative proposals given the lack of market/viability at the moment for their original plans. That could include 2-4-8 rinks and a tournament centre set up with hotels, conference space and the like.

Could I see revised plans with a mid-sized stadium to serve the Elks and a soccer team? Maybe.
edmontonjournal.com

Dan Barnes: Mid-sized stadium, large-sized conversation starter in Edmonton

The stadium is a stunner, and sized to fill a gaping hole in Edmonton's infrastructure inventory.
edmontonjournal.com edmontonjournal.com
 
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