Okay I’ll try this again. Retail fashion brands are needed in downtown and we should try out best to get them downtown. They should be in main streets like Jasper Ave, 104st, or 124st. They might also be in ice district phase 2. It would make sense and maybe also stationlands which would also work. In ice district plaza tho? An “entertainment” square? What entertainment does a clothes store opened from 9 am to 9 pm on weekdays and 9 am to 5pm on weekends bring to the plaza? Is it the shitty Taylor swift music they play in the speakers that brings entertainment? Those stores belong in ECC or Phase 2 ice and station lands. Probably even the old casino spot on 104 Ave. Drugs bring entertainment. I don’t care how you view things or not but that’s largely what drugs are famously used for. Entertainment. A few restaurants open in the day is also good to have to keep that 18 hours a day foot traffic. In order to have foot traffic 18 hours a day you also need nightlife in the area. That’s what we should be attracting. Some bars and pubs, maybe one club. That way you have the ice house, some bowling alleys, ping pong tables, bars, restaurants and casino games all in one area. I’m not going to hit up an H&M and then spend my next few hours at the casino. I tell you what tho I sure as hell will start the night off with a joint, head on in to the ice house and grab some food and vodka, go next door and play some bowling and then end the night with some roulette. That’s what I call an entertainment district. Shopping at a simons and then going to Scotia bank is not entertainment.When you go to other cities, what do you see on their identity shaping streets? Apple stores, lululemon, Nike, H&M, Canada goose, etc. I’m not even saying high end like Luis, Burberry, Rolex. But just major brands that carry clout with young people and make DT attractive to them.
And you can say it doesn’t feel like entertainment…but apple stores and nike get tons of foot traffic, window shoppers, etc.
Your link that highlighted Costco, Walmart, hope depot, home hardware, etc wasn’t too helpful when talking about retail and entertainment for DTs specifically.First and foremost "Entertainment Districts do not "usually" cater to young adults 18-35, nor does the retail associated with said districts. The target market for RETAIL generally is for people with substantial disposable income which certainly excludes a lot of people on the marginal income spectrum, especially those tied to high rents and/or lofty mortgages. There are some brands that target youth; equally there are brands that target other age groups. Your arguments are all anecdotal -- you and your friends/peers, as you constantly quote. It is for that reason that I included the post on Canada's top 100 retailers (I trust you read it). "any thriving DT appeals well to young people" -- like young people are the only group that matters to downtown -- tell that to any major City in Florida, largely catering to retirees from northern states.
I don't have a bone to pick with you -- I don't even know you. I do like to call out biases and prejudices when I see them however. Now you are working on substantiating two of them -- ageism and educational elitism.
As far as National Brands are concerned -- they are almost an anathema to sustained and sustainable retail districts. In Santa Monica a one-time very successful retail area known as the "3rd Street Promenade" grew from a local retail base. As its popularity increased and as the rents and demand for space increased, soon only the conglomerate retail entities could afford the rental rates. As the more colloquial stores were displaced with your favorite shopping brands the Promenade fell out of favor -- one could find all of these stores at any mall anywhere in North America. People began to quit the 3rd Street Promenade experience and instead went to two new areas nearby -- Main Street Santa Monica and Abbot Kinney Blvd. -- both of which made a concerted effort to discourage National Chain Stores. Same in San Francisco -- Fisherman's Wharf and Ghirardelli Square were both ruined by the presence of National Chains. In Ojai, California, and Santa Barbara both Cities have undertaken bylaw forms to restrict the influx of National chains. In Edmonton -- Old Strathcona was revived by local merchants with street-presence ideas -- Hopefully the chains do not destroy this area. If Edmonton wants downtown to prosper and grow it should adopt strategies to encourage local entrepreneurship. It certainly doesn't help when the ICE District leases out major retail space to Banks. And it should not blindly look at catering to one age group!
One of the favorite games that Designers and Architects play at Retail Symposiums is showing slides of the interior of Malls in major cities across North America. From the interior mall pictures the players are to guess which City the particular Mall is located in. It is a very difficult guessing game.
And 'O your nihilistic comments re Edmonton are not at all helpful -- grow up!
First of all, I have shopped at H&M and am well over 35. It would probably be more helpful to discuss popular stores without putting age limiting criteria into the conversation. When you get to a certain age you will realize why that offends some.How is it ageist to suggest an entertainment district, which usually cater to young adults ages 18-35, should have clothing stores that are exciting to young people? Would you call all those brands ageist for primarily targeting young adults in their marketing and branding?
We have multiple universities downtown and any thriving DT appeals well to young people. Why do so few 20 year olds in our city care about our DT? Why do so few ever visit it? We haven’t designed it for them.
Not sure why you have a bone to pick with me. I’m not saying anything against older people, simply speaking as a younger adult about what I observe amongst my peers and what might be helpful.
It is and it is not because there are not "enough" people living downtown. There are so many frustrated people living downtown and nearby, some with good incomes who are forced to drive to the g*d d*mn nearby suburban malls, because there are hardly any stores nearby. Its not because they love driving everywhere. I wish some of those popular brands with their heads apparently shoved up their butts in Toronto would realize this and open a store or two downtown.Downtown Edmonton has the most pitiful retail offering of any major city in N.A... it is absolutely embarrassing and needs to be addressed, but won't be.
First - some thoughts on Toronto Bloor Street. Lets see, I think a Cineplex was discussed for Ice District, but lest we forget , we do have theaters in City Centre. Interestingly, there was at one time a Harry Rosen in City Centre and more recently Holts downtown. Of course, there still is Winners in City Centre and for as Nordstrom, I think it is the most over priced over rated store around. Toronto is around 5 times larger than Edmonton, so maybe not the most realistic comparison.Your link that highlighted Costco, Walmart, hope depot, home hardware, etc wasn’t too helpful when talking about retail and entertainment for DTs specifically.
Call what you want anecdotal. I’m not claiming to be sharing stats and reports/studies. But it’s not hard to look at cities throughout our country and other similar nations and see what sort of stores exist in their DTs and especially around their entertainment districts.
What stores are on Bloor?
H&M, HOlt renfrew, aritzia, cineplex, Sephora, harry Rosen, home sense/winners, Nordstrom.
What about Robeson and Granville?
Urban outfitters, adidas, Nike, old navy, Nordstrom, peloton, Victoria’s Secret, roots, Arc’teryx, lulu lemon, lush, Tiffany’s.
These streets attract serious foot traffic. All I was suggesting is that some retail targeted at young adults would do well to bring university students into the ice district more. A cannibas shop is fine, but there’s a dozen others DT they can go to and that’s not a destination like a big retailer could be.
And diversity in stores I think could be helpful. Loblaws does offer that. But too much stuff for only 6pm and onwards like bars vs some midday shopping as well could be good. As mr God did say though, maybe this isn’t the ideal spot. Jasper, city centre, etc might be better. It just seems like those areas have flopped and the ice district would be one of the only places a big retailer might open a store DT right now. Lots of other spots smaller retailers and local options would explore though.
|Reference ID:||Job No 441499759-002|
|Description:||To install (2) Fascia On-Premises Sign(s) (THE CANADIAN ICE HOUSE)|
|Location:||10324 - 103 STREET NW|
Plan 1722545 Blk 2 Lot 7
10324 - 103 STREET NW
Plan 1722545 Blk 2 Lot 10
|Applicant:||FIVE STAR PERMITS|
|Create Date:||7/22/2022 11:29:34 AM|
Our downtown also doesn't really offer a catalyst and converge area like other cities do. 104 Street and 109 Street are probably the best examples downtown of where that exists to an extent by offering a selection of restaurants and bars that are open later. As someone else pointed out, Robson and Granville have national chains now, but also offer the Commodore Ballroom, Vogue Theatre, Roxy Cabaret, the Orpheum, a few dozen other nightclubs and bars, not to mention nearby UBC - all of which have been there for years through many cycles of different retailers. Pacific Centre has been there for years as well, but was hot garbage for a long time relative to the street level stores.The main reason why we don't have some of the more notable 'chain' retailers in our downtown is NOT because of WEM, but Kingsway. That popular mall with its ample parking that's less then 5km's away from the downtown core is by far and away one of the biggest reasons why City Centre struggles and we don't seem to have storefront presence from some of these retailers. Our downtown population needs to increase exponentially before we see these types of retailers given the proximity of Kingsway.
As someone else pointed out, Robson and Granville have national chains now, but also offer the Commodore Ballroom, Vogue Theatre, Roxy Cabaret, the Orpheum, a few dozen other nightclubs and bars, not to mention nearby UBC - all of which have been there for years through many cycles of different retailers.