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What do you think of this project?


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EdmTrekker

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Lots of vinyl on the windows ... which looks tacky. I hope they introduce fixed signage on the building or on well designed pylons which can be installed in front of these various bars and retail.
 

God

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When you go to other cities, what do you see on their identity shaping streets? Apple stores, lululemon, Nike, H&M, Canada goose, etc. I’m not even saying high end like Luis, Burberry, Rolex. But just major brands that carry clout with young people and make DT attractive to them.

And you can say it doesn’t feel like entertainment…but apple stores and nike get tons of foot traffic, window shoppers, etc.
Okay I’ll try this again. Retail fashion brands are needed in downtown and we should try out best to get them downtown. They should be in main streets like Jasper Ave, 104st, or 124st. They might also be in ice district phase 2. It would make sense and maybe also stationlands which would also work. In ice district plaza tho? An “entertainment” square? What entertainment does a clothes store opened from 9 am to 9 pm on weekdays and 9 am to 5pm on weekends bring to the plaza? Is it the shitty Taylor swift music they play in the speakers that brings entertainment? Those stores belong in ECC or Phase 2 ice and station lands. Probably even the old casino spot on 104 Ave. Drugs bring entertainment. I don’t care how you view things or not but that’s largely what drugs are famously used for. Entertainment. A few restaurants open in the day is also good to have to keep that 18 hours a day foot traffic. In order to have foot traffic 18 hours a day you also need nightlife in the area. That’s what we should be attracting. Some bars and pubs, maybe one club. That way you have the ice house, some bowling alleys, ping pong tables, bars, restaurants and casino games all in one area. I’m not going to hit up an H&M and then spend my next few hours at the casino. I tell you what tho I sure as hell will start the night off with a joint, head on in to the ice house and grab some food and vodka, go next door and play some bowling and then end the night with some roulette. That’s what I call an entertainment district. Shopping at a simons and then going to Scotia bank is not entertainment.
 

thommyjo

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First and foremost "Entertainment Districts do not "usually" cater to young adults 18-35, nor does the retail associated with said districts. The target market for RETAIL generally is for people with substantial disposable income which certainly excludes a lot of people on the marginal income spectrum, especially those tied to high rents and/or lofty mortgages. There are some brands that target youth; equally there are brands that target other age groups. Your arguments are all anecdotal -- you and your friends/peers, as you constantly quote. It is for that reason that I included the post on Canada's top 100 retailers (I trust you read it). "any thriving DT appeals well to young people" -- like young people are the only group that matters to downtown -- tell that to any major City in Florida, largely catering to retirees from northern states.
I don't have a bone to pick with you -- I don't even know you. I do like to call out biases and prejudices when I see them however. Now you are working on substantiating two of them -- ageism and educational elitism.

As far as National Brands are concerned -- they are almost an anathema to sustained and sustainable retail districts. In Santa Monica a one-time very successful retail area known as the "3rd Street Promenade" grew from a local retail base. As its popularity increased and as the rents and demand for space increased, soon only the conglomerate retail entities could afford the rental rates. As the more colloquial stores were displaced with your favorite shopping brands the Promenade fell out of favor -- one could find all of these stores at any mall anywhere in North America. People began to quit the 3rd Street Promenade experience and instead went to two new areas nearby -- Main Street Santa Monica and Abbot Kinney Blvd. -- both of which made a concerted effort to discourage National Chain Stores. Same in San Francisco -- Fisherman's Wharf and Ghirardelli Square were both ruined by the presence of National Chains. In Ojai, California, and Santa Barbara both Cities have undertaken bylaw forms to restrict the influx of National chains. In Edmonton -- Old Strathcona was revived by local merchants with street-presence ideas -- Hopefully the chains do not destroy this area. If Edmonton wants downtown to prosper and grow it should adopt strategies to encourage local entrepreneurship. It certainly doesn't help when the ICE District leases out major retail space to Banks. And it should not blindly look at catering to one age group!

One of the favorite games that Designers and Architects play at Retail Symposiums is showing slides of the interior of Malls in major cities across North America. From the interior mall pictures the players are to guess which City the particular Mall is located in. It is a very difficult guessing game.

And 'O your nihilistic comments re Edmonton are not at all helpful -- grow up!
Your link that highlighted Costco, Walmart, hope depot, home hardware, etc wasn’t too helpful when talking about retail and entertainment for DTs specifically.

Call what you want anecdotal. I’m not claiming to be sharing stats and reports/studies. But it’s not hard to look at cities throughout our country and other similar nations and see what sort of stores exist in their DTs and especially around their entertainment districts.

What stores are on Bloor?
H&M, HOlt renfrew, aritzia, cineplex, Sephora, harry Rosen, home sense/winners, Nordstrom.

What about Robeson and Granville?
Urban outfitters, adidas, Nike, old navy, Nordstrom, peloton, Victoria’s Secret, roots, Arc’teryx, lulu lemon, lush, Tiffany’s.

These streets attract serious foot traffic. All I was suggesting is that some retail targeted at young adults would do well to bring university students into the ice district more. A cannibas shop is fine, but there’s a dozen others DT they can go to and that’s not a destination like a big retailer could be.

And diversity in stores I think could be helpful. Loblaws does offer that. But too much stuff for only 6pm and onwards like bars vs some midday shopping as well could be good. As mr God did say though, maybe this isn’t the ideal spot. Jasper, city centre, etc might be better. It just seems like those areas have flopped and the ice district would be one of the only places a big retailer might open a store DT right now. Lots of other spots smaller retailers and local options would explore though.
 
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David A

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How is it ageist to suggest an entertainment district, which usually cater to young adults ages 18-35, should have clothing stores that are exciting to young people? Would you call all those brands ageist for primarily targeting young adults in their marketing and branding?

We have multiple universities downtown and any thriving DT appeals well to young people. Why do so few 20 year olds in our city care about our DT? Why do so few ever visit it? We haven’t designed it for them.

Not sure why you have a bone to pick with me. I’m not saying anything against older people, simply speaking as a younger adult about what I observe amongst my peers and what might be helpful.
First of all, I have shopped at H&M and am well over 35. It would probably be more helpful to discuss popular stores without putting age limiting criteria into the conversation. When you get to a certain age you will realize why that offends some.

Also, the truth is a lot of companies market a youthful image, but actually sell to a more diverse group. For instance, all those cosmetics and perfumes with young models - that is not representative of their actual customers. In any event, I sort of agree with the other part of what you say, I think H&M downtown would be a good idea - for City Centre. However for whatever reason the national chains seem to overlook downtown Edmonton. Sadly, I don't think many of them know anything more about our city than it has a big mall, which sucks up a lot of the retail. I would suggest you contact H&M or some similar store and give them your feedback, that may be more productive than complaining there are no popular stores downtown.
 

David A

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Downtown Edmonton has the most pitiful retail offering of any major city in N.A... it is absolutely embarrassing and needs to be addressed, but won't be.
It is and it is not because there are not "enough" people living downtown. There are so many frustrated people living downtown and nearby, some with good incomes who are forced to drive to the g*d d*mn nearby suburban malls, because there are hardly any stores nearby. Its not because they love driving everywhere. I wish some of those popular brands with their heads apparently shoved up their butts in Toronto would realize this and open a store or two downtown.
 

David A

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Your link that highlighted Costco, Walmart, hope depot, home hardware, etc wasn’t too helpful when talking about retail and entertainment for DTs specifically.

Call what you want anecdotal. I’m not claiming to be sharing stats and reports/studies. But it’s not hard to look at cities throughout our country and other similar nations and see what sort of stores exist in their DTs and especially around their entertainment districts.

What stores are on Bloor?
H&M, HOlt renfrew, aritzia, cineplex, Sephora, harry Rosen, home sense/winners, Nordstrom.

What about Robeson and Granville?
Urban outfitters, adidas, Nike, old navy, Nordstrom, peloton, Victoria’s Secret, roots, Arc’teryx, lulu lemon, lush, Tiffany’s.

These streets attract serious foot traffic. All I was suggesting is that some retail targeted at young adults would do well to bring university students into the ice district more. A cannibas shop is fine, but there’s a dozen others DT they can go to and that’s not a destination like a big retailer could be.

And diversity in stores I think could be helpful. Loblaws does offer that. But too much stuff for only 6pm and onwards like bars vs some midday shopping as well could be good. As mr God did say though, maybe this isn’t the ideal spot. Jasper, city centre, etc might be better. It just seems like those areas have flopped and the ice district would be one of the only places a big retailer might open a store DT right now. Lots of other spots smaller retailers and local options would explore though.
First - some thoughts on Toronto Bloor Street. Lets see, I think a Cineplex was discussed for Ice District, but lest we forget , we do have theaters in City Centre. Interestingly, there was at one time a Harry Rosen in City Centre and more recently Holts downtown. Of course, there still is Winners in City Centre and for as Nordstrom, I think it is the most over priced over rated store around. Toronto is around 5 times larger than Edmonton, so maybe not the most realistic comparison.

I spent a lot of time around Granville Street, last time I went to Vancouver. What I love about Granville street is it still has some of the original variety and character, although it is being eroded away by some of those generic chains. Sadly Robson street has become a big outdoor mall - it is really just the outdoor version of West Ed. I suspect the locals are not so keen on it, though the tourist sure flock there, which might be much of the foot traffic.

I think the entertainment part of this area will do ok eventually. I don't know if it needs chain retail stores, but a few might help things a bit. We do need more retail stores downtown in general though.
 

cmd uw

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The main reason why we don't have some of the more notable 'chain' retailers in our downtown is NOT because of WEM, but Kingsway. That popular mall with its ample parking that's less then 5km's away from the downtown core is by far and away one of the biggest reasons why City Centre struggles and we don't seem to have storefront presence from some of these retailers. Our downtown population needs to increase exponentially before we see these types of retailers given the proximity of Kingsway.
 

IanO

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Reference ID:Job No 441499759-002
Description:To install (2) Fascia On-Premises Sign(s) (THE CANADIAN ICE HOUSE)
Location:10324 - 103 STREET NW
Plan 1722545 Blk 2 Lot 7
10324 - 103 STREET NW
Plan 1722545 Blk 2 Lot 10
Applicant:FIVE STAR PERMITS
Status:Intake Review
Create Date:7/22/2022 11:29:34 AM
Neighbourhood:DOWNTOWN
 

Gronk!

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From the Taste of Edmonton last night

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westcoastjos

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The main reason why we don't have some of the more notable 'chain' retailers in our downtown is NOT because of WEM, but Kingsway. That popular mall with its ample parking that's less then 5km's away from the downtown core is by far and away one of the biggest reasons why City Centre struggles and we don't seem to have storefront presence from some of these retailers. Our downtown population needs to increase exponentially before we see these types of retailers given the proximity of Kingsway.
Our downtown also doesn't really offer a catalyst and converge area like other cities do. 104 Street and 109 Street are probably the best examples downtown of where that exists to an extent by offering a selection of restaurants and bars that are open later. As someone else pointed out, Robson and Granville have national chains now, but also offer the Commodore Ballroom, Vogue Theatre, Roxy Cabaret, the Orpheum, a few dozen other nightclubs and bars, not to mention nearby UBC - all of which have been there for years through many cycles of different retailers. Pacific Centre has been there for years as well, but was hot garbage for a long time relative to the street level stores.

Not to say that Edmonton doesn't have these entertainment venues, but they are scattered downtown and elsewhere in the City (Winspear, Union, Starlite, Aviary, Station on Jasper, Blues on Whyte, Jubilee). Whyte Ave for years has been the go to place for night life of various types with nearby residential as well - before the pandemic, national retailers thrived on Whyte Ave. Regardless, supporting venues consistently bring people downtown after hours that support the businesses to stay open later when the office workers leave. Edmonton hasn't historically done that well downtown.

Rogers Place is great for hockey, but shows aren't occurring every day of the week there - not enough to provide a catalyst for the entire area. Perhaps if the Pandemic hadn't happened, we may have seen Cineplex, Sporting Life and the Food Court, but I still don't think that would be enough to make it bustling like other Entertainment Districts are in other cities.

A lot of this happens over a long period of time and is organic to an extent. To me, 104 Street is one of the best opportunities downtown for that right now. We're seeing cocktail bars open, more restaurants over time, music venues etc. Killing the proposed sports bar didn't help in that regard though. Sure, might have brought some people you don't want around all the time, but it also would have brought more diverse traffic there and perhaps other types of night life would have noticed and opened. 109 Street is the other area, which is on the fringe of DT.

Why would you open a store in downtown Edmonton when no one goes downtown outside of normal working hours? Even those that go downtown during the day aren't flocking to your store, they are working most of the day. West Ed does well for shopping, but also for other attractions that bring people outside of normal hours. Parking is a bonus on top of everything for sure, but people would still pack Rogers Place for the Oilers, concerts, etc, even if there was minimal parking nearby.

The problem with Ice District is that it isn't really organic, it is managed by a corporation that has its own goals. That said, the surrounding area will continue to evolve over time.
 

TAS

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As someone else pointed out, Robson and Granville have national chains now, but also offer the Commodore Ballroom, Vogue Theatre, Roxy Cabaret, the Orpheum, a few dozen other nightclubs and bars, not to mention nearby UBC - all of which have been there for years through many cycles of different retailers.

Lots of good points, but UBC is not really a factor at all as it's not near their downtown district or Robson/granville.

As was noted previously, the close proximity of Edmonton's post secondary institutions to downtown is a strength we need to continue to take advantage of.
 

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