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Downtown

The bill always comes due when you don’t invest in your society’s dependents. Drug addiction, trauma, mental health issues…to me, making sure these people have access to health care, education, and jobs, means we don’t pay in the way of calls to overdoses, vandalism, and theft.

There’s systemic issues in our society that, if addressed by competent and aware leadership at all three levels, CAN be resolved.
 
They have access to health care, education and jobs yet some still treat our downtown like shit. How is my proposal any different from what bottle recyclers are doing now? Jesus christ! You guys are portraying the act of incentivizing the clean-up of downtown as a bad thing. Trying to make them care is a bad thing, unfuckingbelievable.
 
itom987 said:
They have access to health care, education and jobs yet some still treat our downtown like shit. How is my proposal any different from what bottle recyclers are doing now? Jesus christ! You guys are portraying the act of incentivizing the clean-up of downtown as a bad thing. Trying to make them care is a bad thing, unfuckingbelievable.
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Sorry, can you point out anywhere in our comments where we implied incentivizing downtown cleanup was a negative thing?

I don’t want to speak on behalf of Ken, but I thought we were both speaking to how homeless initiatives are underfunded here and across the country. And how underfunding these things leads to intangible costs in the future.
 
I don't blame them for underfunding the programs when the return on investment is not concrete. They might find a job, they might get off drugs etc. is not good enough.
You guys have been saying the same things for over a decade and some action was taken, show me the results instead of making excuses.

I am going to submit another unpopular opinion on this forum. For those that continue to not give a shit about things in spit of all the free services and programs available can be sent to boot camp. Perhaps they can straighten them out, fear is a powerful motivator.
 
itom987 said:
I don't blame them for underfunding the programs when the return on investment is not concrete. They might find a job, they might get off drugs etc. is not good enough.
You guys have been saying the same things for over a decade and some action was taken, show me the results instead of making excuses.

I am going to submit another unpopular opinion on this forum. For those that continue to not give a shit about things in spit of all the free services and programs available can be sent to boot camp. Perhaps they can straighten them out, fear is a powerful motivator.
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Well Finland is a good example, which is a country that has essentially eradicated homelessness through its housing first policies. Plenty of google scholar articles over the past 23 years if you’re willing to kick back and read on the matter. I recommend it, it’s fascinating and I think our governments should be consulting them to see how we can incorporate such policies here.

You’re entitled to your beliefs and opinions and I respect that, but it is a statement of fact that the best way to solve homelessness involves a combination of providing affordable housing, ease of access to mental health and addiction services, active wellness monitoring, and providing employment and job training to these people when they are ready for it.

On top of that, we must address the root causes of homelessness such as wealth inequality, high costs of living, inadequate program funding, lack of home ownership rules/regulations, and inefficient allocation and distribution of tax monies.
 
itom987 said:
I don't blame them for underfunding the programs when the return on investment is not concrete. They might find a job, they might get off drugs etc. is not good enough.
You guys have been saying the same things for over a decade and some action was taken, show me the results instead of making excuses.

I am going to submit another unpopular opinion on this forum. For those that continue to not give a shit about things in spit of all the free services and programs available can be sent to boot camp. Perhaps they can straighten them out, fear is a powerful motivator.
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i think the problem is your underlying assumption that the individuals you are directing your frustration towards - and we all have the frustrations - have the physical and mental capacity and the resources to make those choices you deem to be so logical that should be making them of their own accord.

yes, fear is a powerful motivator but if their fears of missing out on their next fix or not listening to their own demons is greater than their fear living - and dying - on the streets and is greater than their fear of spending time in jail - or prison - then their fear of spending time in a boot camp certainly isn't going to motivate the change in behavior you expect.

logic needs to be applied from "our side" of this issue because on "their side" they are simply not capable and expecting it of them isn't logical.
 
kcantor said:
i think the problem is your underlying assumption that the individuals you are directing your frustration towards - and we all have the frustrations - have the physical and mental capacity and the resources to make those choices you deem to be so logical that should be making them of their own accord.

yes, fear is a powerful motivator but if their fears of missing out on their next fix or not listening to their own demons is greater than their fear living - and dying - on the streets and is greater than their fear of spending time in jail - or prison - then their fear of spending time in a boot camp certainly isn't going to motivate the change in behavior you expect.

logic needs to be applied from "our side" of this issue because on "their side" they are simply not capable and expecting it of them isn't logical.
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That’s the one. You can’t expect somebody dressed in ripped up pyjamas and no jacket with underwear outside their pants and voices in their heads to go into the library, write up a resume, and procure a job.

They need rehabilitation, habitation, medication, and wellness checks before they can even begin to get on their feet.

We can bitch and moan about the costs this incurs, all the while we can ignore that the province recently handed out something like 4 billion dollars to profitable energy companies as one of the biggest corporate welfare handouts I’ve ever seen.

Like I said, we’ve got got structural issues we need to address first.
 
Stevey_G, I agree about the structural issues regarding government funding but using Finland as an example is not ideal. There are too many factors at play, some of the obvious ones are demographics, government structure, economy etc. it would be better to show results from within Canada.

Picking up garbage and putting it in a trash bin is one of the easiest jobs anyone can do regardless of their background. This is not about going to the Library to write up a resume, this is about giving them purpose, and being rewarded with the pride of getting something done.

Ken, if those drug addicts have more fear of missing out on the next fix than anything else than they are a danger to society. They need something like a boot camp to get themselves sorted out. Programs within boot camps can be tailored to help anyone find a solution to the problems they are facing. They are so flexible that the patients can pick one they like best.
 
Stevey_G said:
That’s the one. You can’t expect somebody dressed in ripped up pyjamas and no jacket with underwear outside their pants and voices in their heads to go into the library, write up a resume, and procure a job.

They need rehabilitation, habitation, medication, and wellness checks before they can even begin to get on their feet.

We can bitch and moan about the costs this incurs, all the while we can ignore that the province recently handed out something like 4 billion dollars to profitable energy companies as one of the biggest corporate welfare handouts I’ve ever seen.

Like I said, we’ve got got structural issues we need to address first.
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One of the problems is how our governments cheap out on social services and health care. Keeping people in a mental health facility costs money and there are a limited number of beds and of course it costs money to add more. So I suspect people are discharged when they shouldn't be, or not admitted, and left to fend for themselves, in particular when they have no support network and if they have no support network they just roam the streets.

So kind of by default, Jasper Avenue has become one of the largest mental health outpatient facilities in the province and this is really not good for anyone. Of course all the extra policing, security costs, property damage and extra emergency health care services to people who are not taking care of themselves ends up costing a lot, much of it probably borne by the government, but some by business and property owners. In the long run, I doubt we are really saving a lot money.
 
kcantor said:
i think the problem is your underlying assumption that the individuals you are directing your frustration towards - and we all have the frustrations - have the physical and mental capacity and the resources to make those choices you deem to be so logical that should be making them of their own accord.

yes, fear is a powerful motivator but if their fears of missing out on their next fix or not listening to their own demons is greater than their fear living - and dying - on the streets and is greater than their fear of spending time in jail - or prison - then their fear of spending time in a boot camp certainly isn't going to motivate the change in behavior you expect.

logic needs to be applied from "our side" of this issue because on "their side" they are simply not capable and expecting it of them isn't logical.
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You are absolutely right on this. There will be some people that for mental or physical reasons can never "make a living" or be gainfully employed. That doesn't mean that they should all get a free ride, but there needs to be a basic level of services that people can access.
 
^

true enough! we just need to remember that this isn’t a free ride for them or for us: 2FF9D54B-5DCC-4992-A42B-7F673F2F4DC5.jpeg
 
itom987 said:
I don't blame them for underfunding the programs when the return on investment is not concrete. They might find a job, they might get off drugs etc. is not good enough.
You guys have been saying the same things for over a decade and some action was taken, show me the results instead of making excuses.

I am going to submit another unpopular opinion on this forum. For those that continue to not give a shit about things in spit of all the free services and programs available can be sent to boot camp. Perhaps they can straighten them out, fear is a powerful motivator.
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I feel like your insights are wasted by being posted on this platform. You should head down to one of the shelters and let the staff know what needs to be done and how all of this could be easily solved. I'm sure new ideas would be welcomed.
 
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