Downtown

[thommyjo]

I’m really interested to see how ARC cards and the LRT can help our downtown in 5ish years. We uniquely have a massive % of our universities right in our core and our transit use is strongest amongst that demographic. If you already have a “free ride” to downtown, that’s a great demographic to attract to the core.

I’d be interested on the data of who goes DT and how often and what the “low hanging fruit” is. Suburban parents might not be easy sells anytime soon, but existing transit users who commute with transit beginning to come DT on evenings and weekends more could be high potential.

Since moving a 15-20min bike ride from DT, my wife and I are there all the time on weekends. When we had to drive, we rarely went due to the hassle it “seemed” to be. I hope arc users could be similar with increased LRT reach.

 

[David A]

Maybe J.M. Furlong of St. Albert could have rescheduled that dental appointment from Tuesday to any time between Wednesday and Friday. Both the AGA and the RAM are closed on Monday and Tuesday.

I'm glad that pedway closures were raised in that letter. Commerce Place still locks their doors by 6 PM except for the west entrance (this is due to GoodLife Fitness remaining open until 10 PM), while their south escalators and pedway to the Central LRT station are closed for renovations for Lord knows how long. The Don Wheaton YMCA is a pain to get into from the east side, which is one reason why I switched to the forementioned GoodLife. I'm almost certain the pedway between ECC and Sandman is closed by 6 PM. The lower south entrance to Telus Place is still locked permanently, so one has to climb the stairs, cross MacDonald Drive and walk to the south entrance on the main floor.

When oh when will things revert back to pre-pandemic levels? Because I don't see that happening for the foreseeable future.

I would have expected AGA and RAM were open Monday to Friday during the day, as would probably many reasonable people.

At least a number of remaining downtown businesses are not closing mid afternoon any more so I suppose that is progress back to normal.

If we want to get people to come back downtown we do need things open there on a more regular basis.

 

[David A]

This is not a great use of city funds, at all.

$1MM or however much will last like 2 months of leasing/opex costs, will go right into the pockets of the mall owners for those two months, subsidizes a couple pop ups shops selling candles and calendars, then what are those shops going to do once that $1MM evaporates after two months? Are you expecting people to travel downtown to buy candles and such from those pop up shops that they could get at literally any other farmers market / pop up market beyond the two months?

You need sustainable, constant foot traffic. Potential better uses of funds, or better strategies to get foot traffic downtown:

1. Continue incentives for residential development (this was successful last year in deferring tax payments of residential developments) - means no cash is leaving the City's hands as tax revenue is deferred rather than donated
2. Engage a leasing party to come up with a specific strategy for recruiting companies downtown. For example, there are many smaller Edmonton companies that have their offices in places like 170st or on the South Side with leases coming due. Could the city entice these companies to move their suburban offices downtown?
3. Use those funds to put out an RFP for a reputable consulting firm (BCG, EY, McKinsey just for example) to come up with a downtown focused strategy that will engage with and recruit business to downtown.
4. Or, simply use those funds to achieve the basics like having a couple more people picking up garbage more frequently or having side walk sweepers out more frequently.

Those solutions range from more elaborate to basic with the intention of creating sustainable bodies downtown.

Handing out $$$ to cover a lease for a couple months for pop up shops is not a good use of funds at all.

I would propose this - elimination of property taxes on currently vacant retail or commercial space rented out downtown for say two to three years for new businesses locating downtown.

So the incentive would be to fill the space not to continue to leave it empty.

 

[David A]

Genuinely curious to see how Downtown (and the city for that matter) gets spruced up for this twice in a generation event.

BOMEX is coming this Sept 23-26 and is an incredible opportunity to showcase Edmonton to the real estate industry, owners, managers, operators, investors and needs the same level of attention.

What story will Edmonton tell?

Probably that we haven't got our act together and are clueless how to fix things. However, I hope that is wrong.

 

[David A]

I’m really interested to see how ARC cards and the LRT can help our downtown in 5ish years. We uniquely have a massive % of our universities right in our core and our transit use is strongest amongst that demographic. If you already have a “free ride” to downtown, that’s a great demographic to attract to the core.

I’d be interested on the data of who goes DT and how often and what the “low hanging fruit” is. Suburban parents might not be easy sells anytime soon, but existing transit users who commute with transit beginning to come DT on evenings and weekends more could be high potential.

Since moving a 15-20min bike ride from DT, my wife and I are there all the time on weekends. When we had to drive, we rarely went due to the hassle it “seemed” to be. I hope arc users could be similar with increased LRT reach.

Given that students have had passes for years, I am not sure if that will make lots of difference. When I was a student at the U of A (before we had passes or Arc), I regularly took the bus downtown, but that was decades ago when there was quite a few stores still downtown including big department stores (Eatons, Woodwards the Bay).

If the Valley Line is ever up and running, that may help some.

 

[ChazYEG]

I would propose this - elimination of property taxes on currently vacant retail or commercial space rented out downtown for say two to three years for new businesses locating downtown.

So the incentive would be to fill the space not to continue to leave it empty.

To add to your proposal: Eliminate for 3 to 5 years, and then gradually reintroduce it over the next 5. This would help business not only set up shop, but establish themselves over a longer period, knowing beforehand when they'd need to start paying property taxes. This way, we don't open ourselves to the risk of having a short-term boom, but a bunch of businesses closing or moving elsewhere when the incentive is over.

I would propose the same kind of thing for developing vacant land, being even more aggressive with the incentives if at least two of the following is true, for the development:
1 - it contains AT LEAST 10% of the units focused on families (ie, 3+ bedroom apartments, condos or townhomes)
2 - it has at least 2 CRUs AND is able to lease them before occupancy of units start.
3 - it commits to maintaining affordable rates on at least 20% of their units over a period equal or superior to the incentive.
4 - it is built on currently vacant land, not by demolishing current building (exceptions for low density buildings that have been vacant for over X amount of years)

 

[Greenspace]

Genuinely curious to see how Downtown (and the city for that matter) gets spruced up for this twice in a generation event.

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BOMEX is coming this Sept 23-26 and is an incredible opportunity to showcase Edmonton to the real estate industry, owners, managers, operators, investors and needs the same level of attention.

What story will Edmonton tell?

Both Junos and Bomex are getting a lot of extra attention from the City and other orgs before and during the events.

 

[occidentalcapital]

Also, the Canadian Hydrogen Convention will be here again. This will draw many to Edmonton.

 

[David A]

I shared this info with both Councillors Salvador and Stevenson last week and asked them both to explain why they supported increasing dt parking fees and expanding the hours of paid parking versus options like YYC was providing with free parking options at different times.

Only heard from Coun. Salvador who said this: (I'm paraphrasing)

While she acknowledged that like most user fees and taxes, higher prices themselves are not a public good, the parking fee increases approved by Council will offset additional impacts to the property tax levy that would otherwise be required.

She also noted that parking fees have stayed virtually stagnant over the past 20 years while property taxes have gone up, leading to a greater and greater subsidization of public parking by all taxpayers.

She said in her view it is important to maintain a balance between different forms of tax and user fees.

Again, she acknowledged that lower parking fees would likely provide some positive impact, but thinks we can get better value for Edmontonians by delivering quality public services along with targeted vibrancy measures for downtown.

I realize she is a politician trying to defend a decision made, so she coming at it from that perspective. However, extending paid parking hours will not help downtown at all and you sure don't get more vibrancy by discouraging people to come by charging them for it. I suppose we can continue on as is and as the vacancy rate for commercial retail space increases, the assessments for downtown properties will go down considerably and they will get less property taxes, so I don't see the city coming out ahead on this. It may be penny wise, pound foolish.

I had hoped the city might have a study indicating the amount of parking fees collected say on Saturdays and evenings and the related costs of patrolling. I think either they don't have it or they are keeping it secret because it does not support their position well. There are no dollar figures indicated in her response, but I doubt it is that much. There are a lot of empty parking spots I see when I come downtown on Saturday, so the loss from say allowing two hours free parking would probably not be that significant.

 

[Greenspace]

^^expecting between 4000-5000 out-of-town guests for Juno week.

 

[kcantor]

I would propose this - elimination of property taxes on currently vacant retail or commercial space rented out downtown for say two to three years for new businesses locating downtown.

So the incentive would be to fill the space not to continue to leave it empty.

David,

If you were talking to a small business owner who has been struggling to stay afloat for the past number of years on stoney plain road or 118th avenue or in north chinatown etc., how would you rationalize continuing to take their tax dollars and using them to subsidize a business opening in vacant space downtown rather than in the vacant space on both sides of his or her business when that business is also starving for lack of traffic in the area?

 

[David A]

David,

If you were talking to a small business owner who has been struggling to stay afloat for the past number of years on stoney plain road or 118th avenue or in north chinatown etc., how would you rationalize continuing to take their tax dollars and using them to subsidize a business opening in vacant space downtown rather than in the vacant space on both sides of his or her business when that business is also starving for lack of traffic in the area?

Ken, first of all this is the downtown discussion forum and many feel there are currently severe and unique challenges related to the downtown area. So I haven't heard this type of discussion about Stony Plain road or 118 Avenue although it has arisen with regards to chinatown (which is a somewhat unique market, but is often included as part of downtown) here or elsewhere.

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think the vacancy levels of retail and commercial space have risen to such crisis levels in other parts of the city, perhaps in part because they have not been as devastated by COVID, WFH and the ongoing/subsequent concentration of social problems.

However if it is equally as bad elsewhere or worse (for instance, how does the vacancy rate on Stony Plain road, 118 Ave or chinatown compare to that of City Centre mall?) then perhaps something similar should be advocated for those areas too.

 

[thommyjo]

Given that students have had passes for years, I am not sure if that will make lots of difference. When I was a student at the U of A (before we had passes or Arc), I regularly took the bus downtown, but that was decades ago when there was quite a few stores still downtown including big department stores (Eatons, Woodwards the Bay).

If the Valley Line is ever up and running, that may help some.

Yeah, my thinking is moreso that X% more of students will now we within a reasonable distance of the LRT. Whereas the current LRT serves a very small % of the city. (With the new valley lines both open in 2028)

 

[Munanyo]

I do expect the city to "spruce up" a bit for the Junos in terms of picking up trash, tidying up sidewalks etc. The city did it prior to the World Cup qualifying games and I expect no less for this event. I think having an influx of out of town visitors hanging out downtown will be a nice boon for the city, business and bring much needed cash. Heck, maybe it'll open up everyone's eyes to see what it would be like to have "life" in and around the core for a few days.

Take advantage of the event and build off the momentum.

 

[IanO]

I really hope so.

It's a tough time of the year to make Edmonton pretty, so pray for snow and -3C to avoid wrecking people's shoes, but please oh please fix wayfinding, wash down where possible/reasonable, polish, clean, light, replace, promote and have a ton of patrols, EPS, support workers and volunteer ambassadors.