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Downtown Real Estate

IanO said:
It originally was 265k and likely closer to 340-360k just a few years back.

Go on MLS... there are dozens and dozens of decent units that were 320-420k under 250k now...
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TAS said:
I wonder how much revenue the city has lost due to the devaluation of just downtown/Oliver condos. Property taxes would have dropped significantly or at least not increased anywhere near the levels of other communities.
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I dont know if people recognize how alarming or unique this is. My property on 104st, one of the more "premier" streets in Edmonton has devalued considerably since I purchased it in 2014.

We have had billions of investment in the arena district to make an entertainment area and the downtown as a whole to become more livable, we have had investment in constructing the valley line from Millwoods to the west end, we have built parks like Alex Decoteau and are building the central park - these are all the base fundamentals typically supportive of increased real estate values every where (parks, transit, entertainment, walkability to grocery stores and restaurants, etc.).........and property values have declined!!!


Just think about that for a minute. Edmonton is truly a unique unicorn as no other large city in Canada that has seen the magnitude of public and private investment into their downtown to make it more livable and attractive, yet has seen property values dive like what we have seen.

Again, this is truly unique and not in a good way whatsoever because whether you care or not or you go downtown or not it impacts every single tax payer in Edmonton having to pay more because of our devalued tax base.
 
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Exactly; I don't think folks grasp the magnitude of how devaluation or personal (on paper or not) loss with regards to residential properties... let alone commercial.

But hey, at least Edmonton is cheap, er affordable... right?!
 
Agree with this thread of discussion. My downtown condo's appraised value has dropped over 30% in the 7 years I've owned it, mostly in the oil bust in late 2010s and then much worse during the pandemic when downtowns hollowed out. The only silver lining is that it might have hit a short term floor, and I guess also that my property taxes keep dropping.
 
CaptainBL said:
I dont know if people recognize how alarming or unique this is. My property on 104st, one of the more "premier" streets in Edmonton has devalued considerably since I purchased it in 2014.

We have had billions of investment in the arena district to make an entertainment area and the downtown as a whole to become more livable, we have had investment in constructing the valley line from Millwoods to the west end, we have built parks like Alex Decoteau and are building the central park - these are all the base fundamentals typically supportive of increased real estate values every where (parks, transit, entertainment, walkability to grocery stores and restaurants, etc.).........and property values have declined!!!


Just think about that for a minute. Edmonton is truly a unique unicorn as no other large city in Canada that has seen the magnitude of public and private investment into their downtown to make it more livable and attractive, yet has seen property values dive like what we have seen.

Again, this is truly unique and not in a good way whatsoever because whether you care or not or you go downtown or not it impacts every single tax payer in Edmonton having to pay more because of our devalued tax base.
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Fox condos that were purchased in 2015-2016 post oil crash have dropped 20-25%. While downtown is very important to the city, unfortunately there needs to be some sort of sane recognition that people simply do not want to pay to live downtown. A downtown that has virtually zero 'for-sale' projects in a major city is a crazy thing to think about.
 
^
it’s not that people simply do not want to pay to live downtown, it’s that people do not want to pay to live anywhere they won’t have security of person and property.

that’s true for renters as well as for purchasers and it’s true for companies as well as for individuals.

if it gets to the point that the rest of the city and not just downtown isn’t considered to be a safe place to live and work, then we will be able to look forward to emulating detroit rather than austin.

ps. events like the commonwealth games won’t “fix” this, they only highlight our problems on larger stages. how many people are still going to go to watch parties and how many promoters are going to continue book edmonton when fans are being stabbed on the street?
 
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Our downtown core simply sucks these days. There's no sugar coating it. And as stated earlier, we truly are an anomaly whereby we live in a major metro city, but property values in and around the immediate core are dropping in value because no one wants to live here. Proof is in the pudding just by looking at real-estate prices for condos, lack of investment by businesses, vacant store fronts etc.

And before anyone comes at me with "if you shit on Edmonton so hard, why are you here?" line, I genuinely enjoy living and being here. I don't harp on the city because it's easy (or because it is legitimate) to do so but because I see real potential of our downtown. Old Strathcona, 124st. and Oliver are cool and fun urban(ish) neighbourhoods that people go to and hangout in and shows people will show up and support cool places. Downtown is not cool or trendy, it's sketchy and lacks any type of cohesiveness that ties things together. I am very vocal and supportive of projects like The Parks, Warehouse District Park and Falcon Towers because an injection of residents will be really helpful. But until the City starts addressing crime (in coordination with the Province) puts in an effort for better maintenance of facilities and at least tries to attract corporations and businesses to set up shop here, downtown will continue to go through cycles of "shitty" and "not as shitty".

I want people who come and visit be able to say they enjoy the city because of its liveliness, bustling downtown, incredible display of food + drink options etc. and not just because of affordability... affordability is our HUGE advantage and we should do everything possible so that Edmonton continues to be, but go visit Montreal or Vancouver for a bit and then come visit our downtown....it'll have you feeling depressed.
 
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Two brief thoughts on DT real estate:

1) Earlier this week I saw a person with a cart and broom picking up garbage downtown. This is the only time I can ever recall seeing this happen. May not be revolutionary, but cleanliness seems like good a good place for the city to start focusing its efforts.

2) The infrastructure downtown is pitiful. If we can renew neighbourhood streets we should be able to do the same downtown and not wait decades for it to be finished. Alberta Avenue, Garneau and Westmount -- all look much better since getting a bit of investment.
 
Munanyo said:
Our downtown core simply sucks these days. There's no sugar coating it. And as stated earlier, we truly are an anomaly whereby we live in a major metro city, but property values in and around the immediate core are dropping in value because no one wants to live here. Proof is in the pudding just by looking at real-estate prices for condos, lack of investment by businesses, vacant store fronts etc.

And before anyone comes at me with "if you shit on Edmonton so hard, why are you here?" line, I genuinely enjoy living and being here. I don't harp on the city because it's easy (or because it is legitimate) to do so but because I see real potential of our downtown. Old Strathcona, 124st. and Oliver are cool and fun urban(ish) neighbourhoods that people go to and hangout in and shows people will show up and support cool places. Downtown is not cool or trendy, it's sketchy and lacks any type of cohesiveness that ties things together. I am very vocal and supportive of projects like The Parks, Warehouse District Park and Falcon Towers because an injection of residents will be really helpful. But until the City starts addressing crime (in coordination with the Province) puts in an effort for better maintenance of facilities and at least tries to attract corporations and businesses to set up shop here, downtown will continue to go in cycles of "shitty" and "not as shitty".

I want people who come and visit be able to say they enjoy the city because of its liveliness, bustling downtown, incredible display of food + drink options etc. and not just because of affordability... affordability is our HUGE advantage and we should do everything possible so that Edmonton continues to be, but go visit Montreal or Vancouver for a bit and then come visit our downtown....it'll have you feeling depressed.
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One of the few parts of downtown that is decently busy on weekdays and sometimes very busy on a consistent basis at this time of year is the city hall wading pool - I often see a lot of kids/families here when I go by. And I go into the library a lot and that is quite busy with people on computers, reading etc.

Puneeta McBryan recently spoke to council and talked a out how critical it is that warehouse park be completed on time (as well as Beaver Hills and Michael Phair upgrades).

She also highlighted Devonian Park in dt Calgary which I've never seen. It's an indoor downtown park and green space on the top level of a downtown mall. It was originally donated to the city in the late 70s and then the city parks department took it over and 10 years ago the city put $37 million into it and it features among other things an indoor playground and it's quite busy.

McBryan told council that this would be something city centre mall here would be interested in which made me think- what? Why isn't this being investigated foe ccm. It would be great if something like this could be pursued. One other thing she talked about was Edmonton's lack of philanthropists and that an effort should be made to find more opportunity here.
 
tkoe_ said:
Two brief thoughts on DT real estate:

1) Earlier this week I saw a person with a cart and broom picking up garbage downtown. This is the only time I can ever recall seeing this happen. May not be revolutionary, but cleanliness seems like good a good place for the city to start focusing its efforts.

2) The infrastructure downtown is pitiful. If we can renew neighbourhood streets we should be able to do the same downtown and not wait decades for it to be finished. Alberta Avenue, Garneau and Westmount -- all look much better since getting a bit of investment.
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Yes. So many of the solutions are simple. We need a downtown "mayor" to advocate for these things and then someone with some basic execution skills in city administration to actually oversee the delivery of core services.
 
TAS said:
One of the few parts of downtown that is decently busy on weekdays and sometimes very busy on a consistent basis at this time of year is the city hall wading pool - I often see a lot of kids/families here when I go by. And I go into the library a lot and that is quite busy with people on computers, reading etc.

Puneeta McBryan recently spoke to council and talked a out how critical it is that warehouse park be completed on time (as well as Beaver Hills and Michael Phair upgrades).

She also highlighted Devonian Park in dt Calgary which I've never seen. It's an indoor downtown park and green space on the top level of a downtown mall. It was originally donated to the city in the late 70s and then the city parks department took it over and 10 years ago the city put $37 million into it and it features among other things an indoor playground and it's quite busy.

McBryan told council that this would be something city centre mall here would be interested in which made me think- what? Why isn't this being investigated foe ccm. It would be great if something like this could be pursued. One other thing she talked about was Edmonton's lack of philanthropists and that an effort should be made to find more opportunity here.
Click to expand...

Puneeta has been a bright light in an otherwise sea of mediocrity. She has been very vocal and genuine in her efforts to get downtown going again and has come up with some good and creative solutions. I also appreciate her down to earth tone and she does not ever come up with "pie in the sky" ideas that would not be practical.

I wish the downtown business association got more funding - I think with Puneeta at the helm they would make good use of that money. They've done remarkably well given their small budget.
 
Has there ever been any talk about the city developing their own land - instead of either selling off it off or trying to get another developer to buy in? Like a city-owned and run development corporation.
Even if all that was built was a market-rate or semi-affordable but still profitable rental apartment building.
Are there any legal restrictions that prevent the city from doing this? Or just an unwillingness to explore it?

I"m thinking in particular about that lot they've been trying to sell in the Quarters for years, on the corner of 102A Ave and 96 St but this could apply to anywhere in town.
If we're having trouble getting buy in to redevelop an area, why not spearhead it? Even if it doesn't spur more development at least you've built more housing and are bringing in some profits for the city.
 
JuliallThat said:
Has there ever been any talk about the city developing their own land - instead of either selling off it off or trying to get another developer to buy in? Like a city-owned and run development corporation.
Even if all that was built was a market-rate or semi-affordable but still profitable rental apartment building.
Are there any legal restrictions that prevent the city from doing this? Or just an unwillingness to explore it?

I"m thinking in particular about that lot they've been trying to sell in the Quarters for years, on the corner of 102A Ave and 96 St but this could apply to anywhere in town.
If we're having trouble getting buy in to redevelop an area, why not spearhead it? Even if it doesn't spur more development at least you've built more housing and are bringing in some profits for the city.
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Haha oh boy there was an entire discussion on this somewhere in another thread.

Long story short, the city of Edmonton, as a city, is acting as a developer on projects such as Blatchford. If you think of governance and management of city bodies acting as a developer is not one of them for many many reasons yet the city of Edmonton usually has smartest people in the room syndrome, which has been reflected in the (lack) of progress at Blatchford. A few months ago it was pitched to council to explore spinning off development into a private city owned crown corp (think similar to EPCOR which is privately run as a corporation with an external board and management with the city as the only shareholder) yet it was voted against to even explore the idea of a municipal development corporation (again smartest people in the room syndrome).

The city has had successful lands that they have sold to a developer. For example, the city sold Stadium Yards to Brookfield (a developer), Brookfield developed the lands and then sold it to companies such as Rohit. In my opinion, this is what should be done with Rossdale, Blatchford, Colleseum and is also what the U of A has done their private Real Estate Trust as well.

Again, as of a few months ago the city has decided not to spin of development in a private corp and to continue doing it themselves, which is not the core competency of any city.
 
CaptainBL said:
Haha oh boy there was an entire discussion on this somewhere in another thread.

Long story short, the city of Edmonton, as a city, is acting as a developer on projects such as Blatchford. If you think of governance and management of city bodies acting as a developer is not one of them for many many reasons yet the city of Edmonton usually has smartest people in the room syndrome, which has been reflected in the (lack) of progress at Blatchford. A few months ago it was pitched to council to explore spinning off development into a private city owned crown corp (think similar to EPCOR which is privately run as a corporation with an external board and management with the city as the only shareholder) yet it was voted against to even explore the idea of a municipal development corporation (again smartest people in the room syndrome).

The city has had successful lands that they have sold to a developer. For example, the city sold Stadium Yards to Brookfield (a developer), Brookfield developed the lands and then sold it to companies such as Rohit. In my opinion, this is what should be done with Rossdale, Blatchford, Colleseum and is also what the U of A has done their private Real Estate Trust as well.

Again, as of a few months ago the city has decided not to spin of development in a private corp and to continue doing it themselves, which is not the core competency of any city.
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Do you remember what thread that would've been in? I'd love to read up more on these apparent recent council discussions that I guess I missed somehow.
 
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