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Downtown Real Estate

CaptainBL said:
What momentum, initiatives, track record, marketing, or interest groups (whether that is city council, the mayor specifically, Edmonton Global, the AB government or others) has provided any kind of inkling that the corporate component will start to become bigger for downtown Edmonton?

Is that just pure speculation? I am genuinely curious because as much as I would love for that to be the case and very much think that needs to happen, I have seen absolutely no indication today or historically from anywhere or anyone that downtown Edmonton will start to see a bigger corporate presence.
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You do realize that he was posing a question, right?
 
I feel we are looking at two different things. I don't believe what the City of Edmonton does (or doesn't) do is the only thing that matters here.

Market size was the factor I was bringing up, which I feel may be overlooked or dismissed. In any event, these two things are independent of each other.
 
The article that was posted is definitely a half glass full way of looking at things. Once CWB completes their new HQ, I don't expect to see a new office tower built for a very, very long time. Even Stantec tower has a good 5 (maybe 6?) floors that are sitting empty right now.

I'm not sure what will happen with the sea of old and dated office towers scattered in and around the core. We'll likely see maybe 1 or 2 conversions to residential (which will be great for downtown) but the rest will be fighting for scraps. Maybe they'll be attractive for any startups that pop up, but being Edmonton we just don't have the culture or history of a plethora of classic tech startups like in other places.

Even when you look outside the core, there are lots of small buildings in Old Strathcona and along places like Gateway/Calgary Trail that have 'for lease' signs for offices. Edmonton is a government and industrial city. Industrial space is what corporations are wanting and have traditionally gone after just because they are the engine running the show.

I've long advocated that the city needs to do a better job of attracting outside businesses to set up shop here and we're failing miserably at it. Edmonton is an attractive place for families looking for all the qualities of a big city at an affordable price, but there isn't a reason for established businesses to come here compared to other NA cities. I wish the city put more effort in at least trying to attract any corporations to at least put in a satellite office or something to test the waters.
 
'I've long advocated that the city needs to do a better job of attracting outside businesses to set up shop here and we're failing miserably at it. Edmonton is an attractive place for families looking for all the qualities of a big city at an affordable price, but there isn't a reason for established businesses to come here compared to other NA cities. I wish the city put more effort in at least trying to attract any corporations to at least put in a satellite office or something to test the waters.'

1. It's MUCH easier to support, incubate, scale and grow companies already here and that has been a mixed bag.
2. Affordable for sure, but also a significant lack of employment with professional growth opportunities at certain levels.
3. Climate and being very, very far from other major markets aka isolated = an uphill battle for attracting investor level folks, entrepreneurs and folks with real means and choice.
 
IanO said:
'I've long advocated that the city needs to do a better job of attracting outside businesses to set up shop here and we're failing miserably at it. Edmonton is an attractive place for families looking for all the qualities of a big city at an affordable price, but there isn't a reason for established businesses to come here compared to other NA cities. I wish the city put more effort in at least trying to attract any corporations to at least put in a satellite office or something to test the waters.'

1. It's MUCH easier to support, incubate, scale and grow companies already here and that has been a mixed bag.
2. Affordable for sure, but also a significant lack of employment with professional growth opportunities at certain levels.
3. Climate and being very, very far from other major markets aka isolated = an uphill battle for attracting investor level folks, entrepreneurs and folks with real means and choice.
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Bolded number 2. The number of people within my network from my time at the U of A that went through both engineering and commerce and left Edmonton because the far greater number of and better professional opportunities elsewhere is uncountable for me. And I was one of those that left for those opportunities elsewhere. I returned to Edmonton for personal reasons but in my network I am by far and away an exception.
 
CaptainBL said:
Bolded number 2. The number of people within my network from my time at the U of A that went through both engineering and commerce and left Edmonton because the far greater number of and better professional opportunities elsewhere is uncountable for me. And I was one of those that left for those opportunities elsewhere. I returned to Edmonton for personal reasons but in my network I am by far and away an exception.
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some of Edmonton's largest professional employers are traditionally very low turnover. Hard to get in the door. I don't know if this is still completely accurate though because so much has changed in the labour market in the last 2yrs.

Nation wide, It really is a new economy today.

Also, some shakeups happening out there with people now fleeing high cost cities and Edmonton adding 10k+ professional and scientific positions last year alone...
 
CaptainBL said:
Bolded number 2. The number of people within my network from my time at the U of A that went through both engineering and commerce and left Edmonton because the far greater number of and better professional opportunities elsewhere is uncountable for me. And I was one of those that left for those opportunities elsewhere. I returned to Edmonton for personal reasons but in my network I am by far and away an exception.
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This is 100% the case for professional jobs. Additionally, the city has done a HORRIBLE job in comparison to Calgary in attracting business HQs as well as assisting local entrepreneurs in growing their organizations. The City of Edmonton as well as many of the local residents have a weird way of shitting on business people and then complain we don't have enough jobs etc.
 
Munanyo said:
The article that was posted is definitely a half glass full way of looking at things. Once CWB completes their new HQ, I don't expect to see a new office tower built for a very, very long time. Even Stantec tower has a good 5 (maybe 6?) floors that are sitting empty right now.

I'm not sure what will happen with the sea of old and dated office towers scattered in and around the core. We'll likely see maybe 1 or 2 conversions to residential (which will be great for downtown) but the rest will be fighting for scraps. Maybe they'll be attractive for any startups that pop up, but being Edmonton we just don't have the culture or history of a plethora of classic tech startups like in other places.

Even when you look outside the core, there are lots of small buildings in Old Strathcona and along places like Gateway/Calgary Trail that have 'for lease' signs for offices. Edmonton is a government and industrial city. Industrial space is what corporations are wanting and have traditionally gone after just because they are the engine running the show.

I've long advocated that the city needs to do a better job of attracting outside businesses to set up shop here and we're failing miserably at it. Edmonton is an attractive place for families looking for all the qualities of a big city at an affordable price, but there isn't a reason for established businesses to come here compared to other NA cities. I wish the city put more effort in at least trying to attract any corporations to at least put in a satellite office or something to test the waters.
Click to expand...
In my 40 years living here, I have never felt the city has really gotten it regarding attracting businesses, particularly those that might have a large (dare I say head) office downtown and of course the results show. There is the occasional elected official that gets it, but mostly it is lip service and I feel the city bureaucracy sure doesn't either.

At best, we tend to make a modest effort, then give up and cede this to other cities. Perhaps it is easier just to go with what we have and are comfortable with, I don't know.

This older office space available might present an opportunity to smaller local companies if they are willing to take advantage of it, that might be the best solution.
 
David A said:
In my 40 years living here, I have never felt the city has really gotten it regarding attracting businesses, particularly those that might have a large (dare I say head) office downtown and of course the results show. There is the occasional elected official that gets it, but mostly it is lip service and I feel the city bureaucracy sure doesn't either.

At best, we tend to make a modest effort, then give up and cede this to other cities. Perhaps it is easier just to go with what we have and are comfortable with, I don't know.

This older office space available might present an opportunity to smaller local companies if they are willing to take advantage of it, that might be the best solution.
Click to expand...

I do agree with the statement that the city just became comfortable with what it's got. It sometimes feels like Edmonton still struggles to come to terms with the fact we are now a large metropolis and no longer a "big-small town" like for most of our history.

Growing pains it may be, but I still don't think that should be used as an excuse. Calgary, which is a similar sized city, our neighbour and an even newer city than Edmonton, seems to be doing a hell of a lot more than whatever CoE officials have done for decades.
 
David A said:
In my 40 years living here, I have never felt the city has really gotten it regarding attracting businesses, particularly those that might have a large (dare I say head) office downtown and of course the results show. There is the occasional elected official that gets it, but mostly it is lip service and I feel the city bureaucracy sure doesn't either.

At best, we tend to make a modest effort, then give up and cede this to other cities. Perhaps it is easier just to go with what we have and are comfortable with, I don't know.

This older office space available might present an opportunity to smaller local companies if they are willing to take advantage of it, that might be the best solution.
Click to expand...

The problem is the operating expenses on these older buildings is not for the faint at heart. It requires a lot of up front capital and little debt as banks don't like financing vacant old office buildings regardless of the balance sheet or covenant behind it. There will be some great deals to be had throughout the city for Class B and C space but don't expect them to get snapped up quickly.
 
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