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Downtown Real Estate

Hotel occupancy north of 75% suggests room for new inns. Obviously Edmonton won't get there until well past COVID (hence the reluctance of lenders to support that market). What Edmonton needs two years into the future is a 5-star venture (a la Four Seasons) plus two-to-three centrally located edifices that are in the econo range and better. I see either Alldritt's tower or the 101 (BofM site) vying for the ***** and new wards picking up the pace around the DT node (Jasper remake of the former Enbridge bldg. conversion; perhaps another as an extension of Ice District (Phase II); and maybe a "second look" at the one-time project on 104th street. Edmonton will have some brave new attractions (appealing to tourists) coming up in the current decade -- re-opening of Fort Edmonton Park, Prairie Sky Gondola, Rossdale re-imaginings, expansion of Winspear, and whatever the heck Roadshowz North Corp. has planned for the City 🧐 🤩🥳🤔🤫
 
BIGE said:
To qualify for this incentive, projects have to be shovels in the ground before the end of 2021?
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Yes, according to EJ article.

"The Economic Recovery Construction Grant Program, approved 11-2 by city council Monday, will provide relief during the COVID-19 pandemic for eligible developers starting construction this year by freezing their property taxes until 2027."
 
IanO said:
Keep in mind that one of FIFA's main concerns was 'a lack of 4star + hotel options'; we would need 1 to 2 more to fully meet their requirements.
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and the issue with that for a developer/owner/lender is the simple arithmetic... if you have a 300 room hotel and fifa or some other one off event occupies it in full for a two week period every year, how do you fill the other 105,000 room nights per year?
 
IanO said:
Attract more events, simple math Ken.
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now why didn’t i think of that??? simple math IanO...

if successful our fifa bid would have cost the city between $35 and $55 million dollars.

let’s assume a $45 million median number is an achievable limit.

let’s assume we attract 6 equivalent events per year. that’s an annual cost to the city of $270 million.

and that still leaves the owner/operator/lender with 84,300 room nights per year to fill.

and please don’t respond with the “economic multiplier” effect, 40-70% of which leaks out in the first year while much of the rest is low end, dead end part time jobs. If economics is the rationale, there are much more attractive places to invest those tax dollars including not having to collect them in the first place.
 
Twas rhetorical good sir.

Point being, we do not have the size/duration/number of events or tourism to regularly support hotels like other major cities.
 
I think @IanO you need to decide what your real opinion on many items of commentary is and then have the courage to stick to it. Either that or you shouldn't be wading into flip off-the-cuff comments, whether rhetorical or not. There is an excellent case for additional hotels (with attendant rooms) based on pre-COVID data that has the Edmonton market near saturation. Edmonton already has a strong prospectus related to summertime festivals, points-of-destination (e.g. Fort Edmonton), push to develop the big E as a winter-City, hinterland pluses (lakes, fishing, hunting and sight-seeing; in winter skiing and other snow-related sports), and a glorius fun-filled River Valley that is adding attractions year on year. These already give Edmonton the strong basis for additional hotels, and events simply add to the equation. So many times in your commentary, when questioned, you come back with "just joking" (humorless) or "rhetorical" (unfounded reasoning). All cities world-wide have extremely low hospitality numbers due to COVID so a current justification is not valid, but on the other side of COVID I believe the numbers will bounce back extremely quickly. If the City had a proper government it would be promoting Edmonton as a world-class destination for the post-COVID expected boom in travel that many prognosticators are reasoning; sadly, we have to count on other fronts to fill the advertising need. Back to hotels -- Edmonton will need more! -- particularly in the downtown precinct.
 
I was commenting on how we SHOULD NOT be expanding for singular events.

You sure about those numbers? Having sat in on a few EDMH meetings, having monthly data regularly reported to me from the top Downtown hotels and while there were moments of hope, generally speaking, we have the weakest performing hotel market of any major city in Canada. Hands down.

Stop and smell the coffee good sir.
 
IanO said:
I was commenting on how we SHOULD NOT be expanding for singular events.

You sure about those numbers? Having sat in on a few EDMH meetings, having monthly data regularly reported to me from the top Downtown hotels and while there were moments of hope, generally speaking, we have the weakest performing hotel market of any major city in Canada. Hands down.

Stop and smell the coffee good sir.
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you were???

“Attract more events, simple math Ken.“

perhaps you need to brew a pot yourself grasshopper?
 
It's the right answer, but somewhat unrealistic at scale for our city; hence the satirical nature of it.
 
^^^^ And you are completely wrong about Edmonton's place in pre-COVID hotel market.

IanO said:
we have the weakest performing hotel market of any major city in Canada. Hands down.
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Montreal had the weakest hotel market pre-COVID "by far" in all of Canada a factor that figures into the equation that that City is losing population (or is that not a "major city"). Quebec City follows closely behind. Whenever questioned you seem to want to highlight your past resume (like you are the "ultimate authority"). People would generally have more respect for you if you were just straight forward with your responses and if you stopped trying to back yourself out of self-imposed corners.
A friend of mine had a good descriptor for people like you -- to quote, "you should get into the ranching business 'cause you are an outstanding bull shipper."
 
I am taking my lead from those in the industry, both locally and nationally.

MTL and QC have well-developed and a significant tourism impact, far more international events and significantly more high-end dollars kicking around.

Purporting seems to be your specialty...
 
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