Downtown Real Estate

[Platinum107]

Curious though, do any of the gen z here have a couple kids yet? I’m a bit older… I used to live in a condo downtown and now live in the burbs. It seems impossible to live in a condo with all the crap you need for your kids lol

Like has been stated by others, Edmonton doesn't make it easy to live centrally and have a family, when it should be easy. I'm only 20 so I don't have kids lol (I'll revisit that when I'm 30), but either a 3-bedroom condo/apartment with a storage space or a townhouse would be the most ideal for my future family I'd imagine. There aren't many of these in downtown or mature neighborhoods at all, and they're usually super expensive if they are.

It's really not a great situation honestly, cause living in the suburbs doesn't save you from a high cost of living either when your family has to pay an extra 10k+ a year to own two cars. I hope that missing middle housing explodes in construction as the ZBR and other related policies take hold, because we needed these options (and lower prices) yesterday. I hope that more urban schools, playgrounds, and childcare services get built centrally too. Lastly, I hope that more jobs become centrally located in Edmonton. These 3 changes would the basis for getting more people to live centrally and make the city better overall.

 

[David A]

Living centrally is a lifestyle choice and first of all I agree if our downtown was more appealing (cleaner, safer, more jobs and more retail), it would be more attractive to more people.

Secondly, even so it will probably not be the first choice for most people with children, except in places where they are forced to because they are priced out of the SFH market.

Some of the older condo buildings are actually well kept up, have a good location/view and have good size suites, but the some of the new rentals are very nice too.

 

[thommyjo]

Living centrally is a lifestyle choice and first of all I agree if our downtown was more appealing (cleaner, safer, more jobs and more retail), it would be more attractive to more people.

Secondly, even so it will probably not be the first choice for most people with children, except in places where they are forced to because they are priced out of the SFH market.

Some of the older condo buildings are actually well kept up, have a good location/view and have good size suites, but the some of the new rentals are very nice too.

I don’t think getting families right downtown is super possible or easy, and shouldn’t be our focus IMO. Much more possible however if filling up the areas around our DT where biking and transit to downtown is strong. Ensuring those areas are appealing to families is key. Meaning safety, schools, parks, safe transit, affordable housing with 3+ bedrooms, etc.

I think a huge potential project is redoing Wihkwentowin arena/pool/park. Put hundreds of millions into it like we do new rec centres in suburbs. Make it a statement to attract families and local residents.

Also, Wihkwentowin school and ones in westmount/inglewood area getting some love would be good.

Then ensure the LRT is super safe. Families visiting on weekends is key to our vibrancy year round.

 

[SarcasticMarmot]

I don’t think getting families right downtown is super possible or easy, and shouldn’t be our focus IMO. Much more possible however if filling up the areas around our DT where biking and transit to downtown is strong. Ensuring those areas are appealing to families is key. Meaning safety, schools, parks, safe transit, affordable housing with 3+ bedrooms, etc.

I think a huge potential project is redoing Wihkwentowin arena/pool/park. Put hundreds of millions into it like we do new rec centres in suburbs. Make it a statement to attract families and local residents.

Also, Wihkwentowin school and ones in westmount/inglewood area getting some love would be good.

Then ensure the LRT is super safe. Families visiting on weekends is key to our vibrancy year round.

Honestly, you don't need to do any of that. As an elder millennial with a kid on the way, I've had tons of friends who wanted to stay central as a family. We love having all our amenities close by, being able to walk, and not spend hours in a car away from our kids. Just give us places we can afford large enough for our families and we will make it work. Until we figure out how to make dense, largish, affordable homes its all moot and the flight to the suburbs will continue.

 

[thommyjo]

Honestly, you don't need to do any of that. As an elder millennial with a kid on the way, I've had tons of friends who wanted to stay central as a family. We love having all our amenities close by, being able to walk, and not spend hours in a car away from our kids. Just give us places we can afford large enough for our families and we will make it work. Until we figure out how to make dense, largish, affordable homes its all moot and the flight to the suburbs will continue.

I mean… look at any other cities and this is what they do. But sure ahha.

Where do the families live in Vancouver? Few are actually downtown. Most are west end or kits or east van or mount pleasant. But they all have quick and safe access to the core with transit. So you see families flood the downtown from these nearby neighborhoods. Few families actually live downtown.

That’s what I’m saying for Edmonton. We can fight to get kids onto 104st. But it’s just not ever going to attract 99% of families. But many more are happy with the nearby mature communities, and even more would be if they were even safer, more kid focused in terms of amenities, and affordable. Our current glenora/rossdale/windsor park areas lean a bit too “empty nester” in their appeal. Make those great family areas and suddenly thousands more are within a distance to shop, visit, eat, and explore the attractions of our core.

Instead we build hundreds of cool, urban looking townhomes for less than 2k a month to rent in rosenthal next to a future rec centre and wonder why all the families have fled to the far suburbs…

 

[David A]

Oh I don't think affordability is the real or biggest problem in living more centrally in what still is Canada's most affordable major city, lest we forget.

For instance, there are a number of fairly affordable houses just north east of downtown, but for some other reasons a lot people with families really don't want to live there.

If you are considering Glenora or Windsor Park, then probably affordability is not your biggest concern. However it is nice to see a bit more density around Windsor Park which might help change it some and I do agree the older areas in general have a lot of potential.

Of course some people prefer the shiny and new, even if far flung. Every growing city has this issue, but perhaps it is more noticeable here than some other places because of fewer jobs and services in our central core to attract enough people to better revitalize some of these older areas.

 

[IanO]

I mean… look at any other cities and this is what they do. But sure ahha.

Where do the families live in Vancouver? Few are actually downtown. Most are west end or kits or east van or mount pleasant. But they all have quick and safe access to the core with transit. So you see families flood the downtown from these nearby neighborhoods. Few families actually live downtown.

That’s what I’m saying for Edmonton. We can fight to get kids onto 104st. But it’s just not ever going to attract 99% of families. But many more are happy with the nearby mature communities, and even more would be if they were even safer, more kid focused in terms of amenities, and affordable. Our current glenora/rossdale/windsor park areas lean a bit too “empty nester” in their appeal. Make those great family areas and suddenly thousands more are within a distance to shop, visit, eat, and explore the attractions of our core.

Instead we build hundreds of cool, urban looking townhomes for less than 2k a month to rent in rosenthal next to a future rec centre and wonder why all the families have fled to the far suburbs…

You sure about that? They have built two schools in the Downtown in the last decade... and have all levels of schooling represented from pre to high. You will regularly see families in many parts of the core, particularly the West End and Yaletown. The difference being that most Downtown families are of 3, not 4.

 

[IanO]

Thomas Chibri,
Vice President | National Investment Team | CBRE Limited

CBRE Canada NIT-Edmonton is pleased to announce the successful sale of Sun Life Place. Comprised of nearly 289,000 SF and 83% occupied at time of sale, this represents the first post-COVID, large-scale downtown office transaction for which a traditional income valuation approach was utilized.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomaschibri?miniProfileUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afsd_profile%3AACoAAAZpVqwBiIi6FHAs1MvM33o9eTm4JFs-1LU&lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_feed%3BxxstOTKbT7uSgK4CjvCwBA%3D%3D

 

[Airboy]

Interesting it was just the one building and not the complex.

 

[IanO]

Weren't the conjoined towers separated a number of years ago in terms of ownership? I thought they were.

 

[thommyjo]

You sure about that? They have built two schools in the Downtown in the last decade... and have all levels of schooling represented from pre to high. You will regularly see families in many parts of the core, particularly the West End and Yaletown. The difference being that most Downtown families are of 3, not 4.

Based on census data of the number of households with kids, downtown Vancouver still has very, very few kids. But yes, the 110,000 people in the downtown do have enough kids for a few schools. It’s just low % wise. So expecting Edmonton to see any progress there anytime soon is wildly unrealistic imo.

 

[IanO]

Sure and generally not ideal due to space requirements, but they probably have the most livable Downtown of any city in Canada.

 

[thommyjo]

Oh I don't think affordability is the real or biggest problem in living more centrally in what still is Canada's most affordable major city, lest we forget.

For instance, there are a number of fairly affordable houses just north east of downtown, but for some other reasons a lot people with families really don't want to live there.

If you are considering Glenora or Windsor Park, then probably affordability is not your biggest concern. However it is nice to see a bit more density around Windsor Park which might help change it some and I do agree the older areas in general have a lot of potential.

Of course some people prefer the shiny and new, even if far flung. Every growing city has this issue, but perhaps it is more noticeable here than some other places because of fewer jobs and services in our central core to attract enough people to better revitalize some of these older areas.

…what. With all due respect, affordability is a major challenge when most new homes within 10mins of downtown are 700+ for detached or newer/renovated 2 stories.

NE of downtown is moot, it’s unsafe and not desired by most, especially not with kids. And “if you’re looking in glenora or windsor…” that’s the entire point mate. Lots of people would love to consider those areas if they could get townhomes under 600k. But few are built.

The lack of family sized housing under 600k in our mature communities is a major barrier, along with a general lack of investment in major amenities for kids.

 

[thommyjo]

Sure and generally not ideal due to space requirements, but they probably have the most livable Downtown of any city in Canada.

Exactly. Hence why if even they struggle, we should reconsider the strategy for ourselves. Attract to CBD? Not worth the effort. Attract to areas a quick bike or transit ride to DT? Doable, so let’s focus there. That was just the point I was trying to make in response to a suggestion that we should try to get families right DT.

 

[MacLac]

What are they suggesting by, “exciting ideas for central Edmonton?”