bodsbods9090
Senior Member
Warm outside so we'll see more of this now for the next little bit I'd have to imagine.
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Downtown Crime
- Thread starter Stevey_G
- Start date
David A
Senior Member
Last week in the evening, I noticed someone had quite the fire going just outside the office building where I work. It was right next to one of the building pillars, which fortunately was just concrete.
I alerted security right away and when I went by again later, the fire and all signs of it were gone. But unfortunately, this isn't uncommon and I have even seen the fire department dispatched to deal with garbage can fires.
IanO
Superstar
Alberta government to spend $180M for involuntary addiction treatment centres
Read the full story and comment on RMOToday.com
www.rmoutlook.com
Whatup
Active Member
It's a shame that this type of behaviour has become sort of normalized. People I know in Edmonton just accept the crime, chaos and disorder and who can blame them - they need to live their lives and stay positive - but the government has let people down (civic, provincial and federal). My eldest child will graduate from high school next year and we always assumed he would go to the UofA or UBC but now we have found better options in Asia. Much bigger cities than Edmonton that are much safer, cleaner, more civil and better job prospects. They also have strict laws against drugs, especially selling drugs and hard drugs like opioids. I love Alberta and Edmonton but its not that appealing anymore - too much political nonsense, chaos, crime and not worth the high cost of living. Globalized high tech world is very interconnected and many people can live successful lives in many different places now. The competition is fierce - Canada needs to get it together. Many of the things that make Canada appealing are either gone or deteriorating. Its a shame what has happened. Canada is not that safe anymore - the horrific attack on a 6 year old in Halifax today is just another in a long line of awful public safety disasters. I was in Edmonton two years ago and went to the London Drugs on 104th avenue and it was super sketchy. So many mentally unstable people just milling about - a couple of these drug induced zombies approached me speaking jibberish and being aggressive. I was constantly looking over my shoulder and it was very unsettling. Its not just in certain neighbourhoods now either - its spreading. I don't want to live in a society where I am nervous just going to the local London Drugs. Before my mom moved out of her west end home a few years ago her garage was getting broken into almost weekly - druggies coming up from the ravine near her home - very scary.
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IanO
Superstar
I'm not sure we 'accept' it, versus have given up and become apathetic to it.
It's a very, very sad state out there and what's equally sad is how many simply move further afar to escape it instead of demanding change.
It's a very, very sad state out there and what's equally sad is how many simply move further afar to escape it instead of demanding change.
thommyjo
Senior Member
Cops/judges/lawyers/politicians etc living in the suburbs and not doing enough to improve things centrally is so frustrating. Not enough personal motivation. Let’s get some gangs and encampments in St. Albert and watch how magically fast things change
David A
Senior Member
If our governments moved all the homeless people to Glenora or Riverbend, the problems would be dealt with within a week.
This is one of the biggest problems with our current society, those with the most power and resources to deal with the problems are the most insulated from them.
MacLac
Senior Member
Out of all the News outlets….you pick the “Rednex Times?” Geez Ian, thought you were on this side of the “Flat Earthers” lAlberta government to spend $180M for involuntary addiction treatment centres
Read the full story and comment on RMOToday.com
Whatup
Active Member
Isn't apathy a form of acceptance? When I go to Tokyo, Seoul or in KL where I currently live - I feel safe. There is always petty crime but I never feel physically threatened. The impact of drugs cannot be understated - the societies here obviously have some issues but drug is not wreaking havoc on people, their families and society like it is in Canada. There is a pride of community here - people are very family oriented and pride for family, community and country is humble but strong. I've not always been enamoured with the cultural aspects here but I am starting to respect them more. Seoul will be my next destination to live and I can't wait - its civil, clean, safe, organized and the international campus where my son will study isn't overrun with DEI, jew-hate rallies and other crazy nonsense. Also, many global TNCs in cities like Seoul now - very international.
Whatup
Active Member
So are people of means supposed to go live in the CBD? Would this make them more virtuous? Remember, these people pay a lot of taxes that is supposed to be used to help society. Many of these people own businesses that employee people and generate tax revenue. Also, is there no personal responsibility anymore - everyone who decides to take hard addictive drugs is a victim of something? I understand a lot of addiction stems from awful factors like child abuse, sexual abuse etc - but there are also many people who choose to live risky lifestyle regardless of the consequences. I think there needs to be much much stricter laws regarding drug use and especially drug dealing - and creating and enforcing these laws are not solely up to all the rich folks - can't blame the rich for everything.
thommyjo
Senior Member
I won’t speak to the glenora statement so much. But the reason I called out St. Albert is because it’s a separate tax area. City of Edmonton residents pay the salary of EPS to continue to fail at improving safety, while increasing their budget and wages, which they use to go live in a suburb where the taxes they pay don’t even support the city that pays them.
They fail to make transit and schools safe because they don’t care. They drive their kids to a rich kid school in their 130k GMC pickup. No risks to them. Doesn’t impact their daily life
Whatup
Active Member
So now people who work hard, are good tax paying citizens and who choose to use their hard earned savings to buy a home in supposedly safer areas in the suburbs aren't doing enough? They are the ones responsible for this issue - the evil suburbanites. Most people have empathy and Canada is a socialist country with more social safety nets and support then the vast majority of countries in the world. However, empathy has limits and when people see "safe supply" nonsense, voluntary rehab, addicts refusing to seek treatment etc people start to lose some empathy. Stricter laws and enforcement, mandatory rehab, more education on harms that drugs cause, more education on better lifestyle choices and more personal responsibility is needed. Too many people in Canada now think they are victims of some injustice and society is to blame - and the government needs to fix all their problems.
thommyjo
Senior Member
Let me be clear on my stance: we need stricter enforcement, a new bail system, harsher sentences, more treatment centres, less tolerance for drug use and disorder, more cops who actually do their jobs in key areas, no SCSs, no encampments in high traffic areas.
I’m not putting all the blame on “society”. I believe in personal responsibility too.
What I’m critiquing is that the people who are in positions of power, often purposefully structure their lives in such a way to avoid the problems they are responsible to help fix. Its like the big social media executives that won’t seriously make efforts to stop children from using social media despite very clear evidence of substantial harm. Yet they put their own kids in high end, private schools with no devices and won’t let their own kids have phones or socials. It’s hypocritical.
So cops all living in St. Albert (I believe a recent stat was that over 50% reside there?) shouldn’t surprise us when little progress is made on crime. Doesn’t affect them on a personal/family level.
And the whole “they worked hard to buy homes in safer suburbs”…. Yeah, well people in glenora and westmount also work hard and also bought homes worth as much, if not more, than many St. Albert homes. And they pay substantial taxes, 50% of which goes to cops. So how about the cops do their freakin jobs better before asking for more money again.
erudyk_29
Active Member
Factually untrue, in Canada, control of the means of production is held by private interest, not controlled by workers unions or the federal government and is not held as communal property. I don't think you know what socialism is my friend.
Says the guy who blames all his problems on DEI, immigrants and Justin Trudeau. You can say all you want about "personal responsibility", and it is definitely important, but when rates of homelessness track almost perfectly with the cost of housing, it almost seems like there's more at play here than just laziness.
Enforcement is important, but so is providing assistance to people, you can't expect somebody to: get clean, get a job and make money while living on the streets and in Alberta's laughable shelter space. You try going cold turkey on an addictive substance while living in those kind of conditions, it's just not realistic. This is why housing first policies have been so successful in places like Finland, which have essentially eliminated homelessness, and streets are safe. You have to both say that this type of behaviour is unacceptable in public spaces, and police need to do their job to make sure people are safe, but if you don't provide a way out for people, all you've done is criminalize poverty without offering a solution, and so you get an overcrowded prison system, and what's been happening in cities across Canada where encampments get torn down, people's literal only personal belongings are confiscated and they just move to another spot in the city. It's just shuffling the problem around and not doing anything to actually solve it.
It has been proven time and time again it is more costly in the long run to allow people to continue living on the street, doing drugs, committing crimes, breaking and entering, and having health crises every week. It puts greater pressure on the healthcare, prison, legal system among other. It ends up costing the taxpayer more money than just building sufficient quality shelter space.
The problem is right now we're trying to do just the carrot out of the carrot and stick solution, and it's a pretty crappy carrot at that. There are not enough beds in the city, and the ones that do exist are often worse than just sleeping outside (issues of assault in shelters, requirements to be clean, often not allowed to bring pets or even partners in shelters together).
The carrot needs to be fixed, with enough beds to actually house all the homeless people in the city, and they need to offer more dignity than living in the street, which they often don't.
In addition, the stick (the police) need to actually do their job, which is what everyone else has been saying. Also, I'm not opposed to making things like rehab and going to shelters mandatory (given there is enough space, and people aren't being asked to leave all their belongings behind).
The enforcement only approach has failed, as has the shelter only approach. They both need to be done simultaneously.
Also as a frequent Edmonton transit rider and visitor of the central city (unlike you who feels they have a sense of what's happening in the city despite not even living in the country), when the Provincial Government decided to cut safe consumption sites, the number of people shooting up in transit stops, in public squares, etc was visibly much worse. Overall contributing to the sense of social disorder in the city, downtown, on transit, etc. This is yet another of many UCP failings to actually address the real issues in the province.
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David A
Senior Member
Well off people avoiding the problems much of the rest of society has to deal with is not also personal responsibility, it is an abdication of responsibility. I don't know what all the solutions are, but avoiding the problems is definitely not the solution.