IanO
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Downtown Crime
- Thread starter Stevey_G
- Start date
IanO
Superstar
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IanO
Superstar
Vinesh with the $64,000 question.
vinesh pratap
@vineshpratap
Thursday afternoon thought:
Why did we - as a city - essentially have to reach near rock bottom on personal safety on transit before changing direction in strategy??
vinesh pratap
@vineshpratap
Thursday afternoon thought:
Why did we - as a city - essentially have to reach near rock bottom on personal safety on transit before changing direction in strategy??
IanO
Superstar
A good read.
CplKlinger
Senior Member
Andrew Knack refuted that in a reply, and linked a blog post by Anne Stevenson.
SAFETY IN THE CORE — Anne Stevenson
Our central communities of downtown and Chinatown have received a significant amount of attention over the few months, and rightfully so. Conditions in the heart of our city have deteriorated significantly, culminating in the heartbreaking loss of two members of the Chinatown community in violent as
www.annestevenson.ca
Paquette made the argument like this:
"I make a motion 2 years ago to enhance public safety in transit. After debate, it passes. A report comes first. Then Council uses the report as the springboard for a costed strategy. That comes back. 6 months to a year have passed by this time. Then Admin begins implementing the strategy. That takes money and hiring and training. There goes another 3-6 months. Then it goes live if we haven’t been delayed by a pilot project first to ensure the right money is going to the right places in the right way for results. So then we reach today, where EPS and Admin finally roll out more bodies to enforce and support.
In the meantime, Council is prodding, pushing, pulling for more rapid deployment, but logistics and budgetary restraints keep slowing everything down. Here we go, though. At last. I’ll be watching this effort with as much interest as everyone else. The process is super frustrating and slow and that is all about fiscal constraints and hiring restraints - basically attempting to ensure the budget isn’t blown out of proportion. Additionally, with these specific issues, we are WAY out of jurisdiction (mental health, addictions, houselessness) and have to justify that legally and financially.
Folks may have been concerned about transit safety in the past 6 months but we started the work 2 years ago or more.
Heck, it took me 4 years to get Food and AgriBusiness embedded as one of our economic pillars going forward and I had a ton of skepticism and eye-rolling when I first began. Now it’s a no-brainer."
And in another comment:
"The Transit Police Officer training that just occurred is an example.
We began asking about transit safety before the pandemic, and as things were in flux during that time and initially ridership was very low it was difficult for Administration to get an accurate bead on what was required as an investment (if anything - when these strange times were over, did things go back to normal?). What began to emerge is that due to factors beyond City control there was a steep increase in houselessness, mental health issues, and addiction issues in our streets. In addition to the pandemic we were (and are) now facing multiple crises at once.
The only reason it’s not worse is because of investments the City was making into mitigating these concerns already over the past few years - sadly the sheer human numbers increased more rapidly than could be forecasted for.
An example is that I started work on the COTT program 2 years ago, and a pilot was launched about one year ago. The pilot proved successful and in February Council approved a $3.9m safety plan presented by EPS and Admin that included the COTT approach. Since then, dozens of new Peace Officers have recently completed their training and are, as we speak, beginning the next phase of that safety plan approved last winter and folks should be seeing increased presence (I’m hearing that people ARE noticing a difference). The next batch of officers are now being trained but the City is having difficulty hiring social workers - the field is exhausted due to COVID, but we are being proactive.
That is just one thing Council and Admin have been working on in the area of Community Safety and Well Being."
So it's not that they waited until we hit "rock bottom" before acting. But could they have rushed the reports or pilots, or done something else to go faster - all while provincial supports keep getting cut? Maybe; I'd love to hear what you guys think.
occidentalcapital
Senior Member
I am concerned that this is taking up too much oxygen now.
Sohi needs to focus on Edmonton's economy. Provincial government just lavished yet another $22 million dollars on Calgary's newest vanity project, the "Quantum City". I've lost count of how many economic gifts Calgary has received that Edmonton has not under this UCP government. Crime is a big issue to be dealt with, but UCP is happy to let it become a distraction to the bigger issue, which is building Edmonton's economy. Sohi has to be on top of this.
Sohi needs to focus on Edmonton's economy. Provincial government just lavished yet another $22 million dollars on Calgary's newest vanity project, the "Quantum City". I've lost count of how many economic gifts Calgary has received that Edmonton has not under this UCP government. Crime is a big issue to be dealt with, but UCP is happy to let it become a distraction to the bigger issue, which is building Edmonton's economy. Sohi has to be on top of this.
IanO
Superstar
The economy is going to take care of itself.
We just need to ensure Edmonton is an attractive place to invest, visit, set up offices and has improved air connections.
Most of the negative 'economic' stories I hear are from investors coming to the city for a tour or meeting and leaving appalled at the state of our financial district/Downtown.
We just need to ensure Edmonton is an attractive place to invest, visit, set up offices and has improved air connections.
Most of the negative 'economic' stories I hear are from investors coming to the city for a tour or meeting and leaving appalled at the state of our financial district/Downtown.
IanO
Superstar
Andrew Knack refuted that in a reply, and linked a blog post by Anne Stevenson.
SAFETY IN THE CORE — Anne Stevenson
Our central communities of downtown and Chinatown have received a significant amount of attention over the few months, and rightfully so. Conditions in the heart of our city have deteriorated significantly, culminating in the heartbreaking loss of two members of the Chinatown community in violent as
Paquette made the argument like this:
"I make a motion 2 years ago to enhance public safety in transit. After debate, it passes. A report comes first. Then Council uses the report as the springboard for a costed strategy. That comes back. 6 months to a year have passed by this time. Then Admin begins implementing the strategy. That takes money and hiring and training. There goes another 3-6 months. Then it goes live if we haven’t been delayed by a pilot project first to ensure the right money is going to the right places in the right way for results. So then we reach today, where EPS and Admin finally roll out more bodies to enforce and support.
In the meantime, Council is prodding, pushing, pulling for more rapid deployment, but logistics and budgetary restraints keep slowing everything down. Here we go, though. At last. I’ll be watching this effort with as much interest as everyone else. The process is super frustrating and slow and that is all about fiscal constraints and hiring restraints - basically attempting to ensure the budget isn’t blown out of proportion. Additionally, with these specific issues, we are WAY out of jurisdiction (mental health, addictions, houselessness) and have to justify that legally and financially.
Folks may have been concerned about transit safety in the past 6 months but we started the work 2 years ago or more.
Heck, it took me 4 years to get Food and AgriBusiness embedded as one of our economic pillars going forward and I had a ton of skepticism and eye-rolling when I first began. Now it’s a no-brainer."
And in another comment:
"The Transit Police Officer training that just occurred is an example.
We began asking about transit safety before the pandemic, and as things were in flux during that time and initially ridership was very low it was difficult for Administration to get an accurate bead on what was required as an investment (if anything - when these strange times were over, did things go back to normal?). What began to emerge is that due to factors beyond City control there was a steep increase in houselessness, mental health issues, and addiction issues in our streets. In addition to the pandemic we were (and are) now facing multiple crises at once.
The only reason it’s not worse is because of investments the City was making into mitigating these concerns already over the past few years - sadly the sheer human numbers increased more rapidly than could be forecasted for.
An example is that I started work on the COTT program 2 years ago, and a pilot was launched about one year ago. The pilot proved successful and in February Council approved a $3.9m safety plan presented by EPS and Admin that included the COTT approach. Since then, dozens of new Peace Officers have recently completed their training and are, as we speak, beginning the next phase of that safety plan approved last winter and folks should be seeing increased presence (I’m hearing that people ARE noticing a difference). The next batch of officers are now being trained but the City is having difficulty hiring social workers - the field is exhausted due to COVID, but we are being proactive.
That is just one thing Council and Admin have been working on in the area of Community Safety and Well Being."
So it's not that they waited until we hit "rock bottom" before acting. But could they have rushed the reports or pilots, or done something else to go faster - all while provincial supports keep getting cut? Maybe; I'd love to hear what you guys think.
As a resident of the Downtown (16yrs) and transit user, my experience (along with many in our building) went from improving and filled with anticipation to fear, anxiety, multiple losses/damage due to theft or attempted and disappointment that we were F&(()&*ing left alone for literally two years. TWO! Our condo had more incidents in the last two years than the last 10+ combined.
They can say all they want, but Downtown (including Chinatown) was left to fend for itself and felt, no, WAS abandoned.
The business owners I spoke with said the same thing, as did visitors (the very few).
This would not have happened in most other neighbourhoods or part of our city (although I feel awful for 118ave at times and Stony Plain Road too).
Yes we had COVID to deal with which significantly constrained resources.
Yes there was/is a movement to defund the police which made things complicated and challenging
Yes we have an opioid crisis and other drug usage leading to a multitude of negative downtown stream impacts
Yes we have a significant rise in homelessness that needs to be recognized at the Provincial level and actually received proper resources to begin to address it
I don't envy decision makers or EPS, BUT you dont abandon your Downtown/core and literally put so much fear into many of its residents that they move out of the area or become prisoners in their own homes.
For shame.
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Aaron_Lloyd
Active Member
Sorry does Paquette really think this makes the city council look better? That they had no sense of urgency and twiddled their thumbs and wasted time and money on consultants instead of actually doing something for YEARS until they were finally spanked by the province? lmao
Commissioning reports while Rome burns.
kcantor
Senior Member
this is such a sad ending following decades of failure by our provincial health and social services and justice systems.
it makes one wonder whether edmonton’s mayor could invoke the police act and serve notice on minister shandro demanding a written plan of action on how he’s going to make our streets safe.
it makes one wonder whether edmonton’s mayor could invoke the police act and serve notice on minister shandro demanding a written plan of action on how he’s going to make our streets safe.
occidentalcapital
Senior Member
You live in Calgary now right?
occidentalcapital
Senior Member
Wow, shocking to read that RCMP dropped this offender off in Edmonton. Only for him to then kill 2 people mere days later. We are not a dumping ground for mental health cases and convicts. THIS HAS TO END!!
IanO
Superstar
Canmore and Edmonton
CplKlinger
Senior Member
That sounds awful to live through, I'm very sorry about that. Thanks for the insight, it helps me a lot.
The_Cat
Senior Member
Are you kidding?
edmontonjournal.com
RCMP won't face third-party investigation for dropping accused Chinatown killer in city: justice ministry
In a lengthy statement Friday, Mayor Amarjeet Sohi said "the justice system and policing in Alberta failed" Trang and Hoang, and demanded an investigation
edmontonjournal.com