Edmonton City Centre Mall (Renovations) | ?m | 2s | LaSalle Investment Management

[David A]

I was in the Bell Tower lobby a week ago and a group of people had gathered for the beginning of some sort of downtown walking tour. About 10-15 people The guide was giving a talk about the mall and without being too conspicuous I tried to listen in. It didn't give me the warm fuzzies. I could be wrong but the person was trying to argue that saving some of the west mall (the Eaton Centre) side was worth keeping as retail. Clearly, they've not read my memo.

It was hard to tell what the point of the tour was, or who the group was. It wasn't touristy, and it didn't look very business-y either.

Interesting. I would make that argument too and actually now it seems two more tenants are moving into the west side which still has around 15 tenants, one currently has space in the east side.

Also the only real redevelopment proposal put forward so far also envisioned keeping some of the west mall and focusing most of the redevelopment on the empty former Bay and nearby space.

 

[Offworld]

You might be getting a bit too harsh and judgemental with that assessment. Construction was actually started on the first of those office towers before the market went to hell in a handshake and it was capped before reaching full height and converted to a hotel. That’s why the Delta has such a strange floor plate for a hotel (it’s much too deep) and doesn’t have the lobby and amenity spaces you would expect in a purpose built hotel. People sometimes forget that developers work in the market, they don’t get to make the market and it was 30 plus years before the office market in downtown Edmonton even came close to recovering.

I'd have to think that the other towers were certainly bait and switch, or any kind of towers for that matter. I remember back in the day speaking with city planners and the head of the what I think was the Downtown Development Corp, and they advised me that there was no infrastructure or superstructure built for the towers, just standard retail space.

 

[kcantor]

^
As a long-time member and ex-President of the Edmonton Downtown Development Corporation, let’s just say our memories in this regard aren’t the same…

 

[Offworld]

^
As a long-time member and ex-President of the Edmonton Downtown Development Corporation, let’s just say our memories in this regard aren’t the same…

Hey... was there perhaps another pres, or were you the only one? If so, then maybe it was a planner that made the comment. This would have been latter 80s. When I asked about tower siting, the response I got was "no towers". There's no foundations, voids for eventual elevator cores, etc. It was a mall with a big anchor, straight up. Compare that with Manulife 2, that has the core elements already in place, constructed when the Manu 2 mall was built.

The exception would be the hotel, as you've described it.

 

[David A]

As our late esteemed QE II once said, some recollections may vary. I feel they likely did initially intend to build towers, but at some point realized it did not make sense except to keep it to help move the rest of the project ahead.

 

[Greenspace]

Unified Clothing has moved to a larger space on the west side (former Jacob)

Some other clothing place opening in former Club Monaco space

H&R Block has their annual pop-up also on west side.

Return to office is noticeable at noon, ECC was busier than I've seen in a long time.

 

[buildings]

if the mall owner pushes a retailer to move to another location, do they help with the moving and redecorating costs or is the retailer expected to carry all that cost?

 

[Markyeg]

Sounds like we should see some more information come out on this from CBRE in the next week or two.

Will it be some good updates/information or should we prepare for disappointment?

 

[Kosy123]

Hot take but based on the foot traffic just this week and general downtown momentum, we're probably going to see a whole bunch of new retail tenants in the mall.

 

[Markyeg]

Was DT for a meeting this morning and went to CC Mall afterwards to grab some lunch. Like a previous poster said, I haven’t seen it this busy since before Covid.

 

[David A]

Was DT for a meeting this morning and went to CC Mall afterwards to grab some lunch. Like a previous poster said, I haven’t seen it this busy since before Covid.

It is nice to have Unified open now in the space across from ATB on the second level of the west side. This side is starting to feel more filled again, at least on this level.

 

[whattheheck]

Strange. Are we not lead to believe that, according to the Mayor (and some of his disciples here), that office workers don't need to be DT, because it doesn't really help with revitalization.

 

[Yeggy]

You might be getting a bit too harsh and judgemental with that assessment. Construction was actually started on the first of those office towers before the market went to hell in a handshake and it was capped before reaching full height and converted to a hotel. That’s why the Delta has such a strange floor plate for a hotel (it’s much too deep) and doesn’t have the lobby and amenity spaces you would expect in a purpose built hotel. People sometimes forget that developers work in the market, they don’t get to make the market and it was 30 plus years before the office market in downtown Edmonton even came close to recovering.

All you said is true but context is required.

It was also a project forced upon Triple.
One that came with zero interest loans for expansion of WEM from the province. Not forgetting city council effectively holding up WEM expansion permitting to secure dt development.

The project was a clear case of governments trying to “pick winners” which often become losses.

I will be so bold as to say DT Edmonton would of been better off if Edmonton Centre had never been built.

 

[David A]

I will be so bold as to say DT Edmonton would of been better off if Edmonton Centre had never been built.

While I don't remember it, I would agree the loss of the old court house for Edmonton Centre was a bad thing. Although on the east side we did get several office towers still there and a very nice department store for a couple decades.

The west side I agree is more controversial, but it was also a fairly busy shopping mall for over 30 years. I would say it wasn't so bad. If it is made more interactive with the street, in the future it could continue to be an asset.

 

[Yeggy]

While I don't remember it, I would agree the loss of the old court house for Edmonton Centre was a bad thing. Although on the east side we did get several office towers still there and a very nice department store for a couple decades.

The west side I agree is more controversial, but it was also a fairly busy shopping mall for over 30 years. I would say it wasn't so bad. If it is made more interactive with the street, in the future it could continue to be an asset.

The question that is begged is…. was the only way to achieve all that via CC?

I can see arguments for both sides.