Manulife Place Renovations | 145.99m | 36s | AIMCo | MdeAS

What do you think of this project?

  • Total voters
    27
We are far from our goals of identification to put it mildly; and we dont do much interms of promotions to get people's mind frames to think of downtown. We make downtown inclusive to a genre style where families are absentees. Look at the clienteles that support HS. Very few live downtown...
 
Anyone know the demographics and income breakdown for DT rn? I wonder if we just don't have enough people who would shop higher end living DT? My dad was a partner at PwC and most of his coworkers lived on the rivervalley in the west or SW. Very few lived DT. Maybe thatll change with legends, encore, etc. But im not sure a retail store can draw anyone away from the big malls in the suburbs. It needs to be more convenient to go to city center or Manulife than wem or others. And rn it seems like only people living DT would find that better.

Glad Manulife is getting the upgrade. Badly needed. Just hope they can land good businesses that are sustainable for DT.
 
thommyjo said:
Anyone know the demographics and income breakdown for DT rn? I wonder if we just don't have enough people who would shop higher end living DT? My dad was a partner at PwC and most of his coworkers lived on the rivervalley in the west or SW. Very few lived DT. Maybe thatll change with legends, encore, etc. But im not sure a retail store can draw anyone away from the big malls in the suburbs. It needs to be more convenient to go to city center or Manulife than wem or others. And rn it seems like only people living DT would find that better.

Glad Manulife is getting the upgrade. Badly needed. Just hope they can land good businesses that are sustainable for DT.
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Tableau Public

public.tableau.com public.tableau.com

Roughly 2,840 households make over $70,000. 1,270 households over $100,000. A good ratio walk/transit to work, but 1/3 also drive.

Anyone have the demographics for downtown Calgary? Their retail selection is much better than here, but I imagine their demographics are very different than us too. The notion that government workers (relatively well paid) are brown baggers exists for a reason.
 
IanO said:
Clean streets, active storefronts, a feeling of safety and multiple other things to do when here.

MANY folks who used to shop at Manulife/Holt drive and drove out because they didn't feel safe on the street or didn't see another reason to stay.
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Holt was crap for a long time. That is why many people went elsewhere. HS is decent though.

I don't think we will ever see big expensive anchors in downtown Edmonton - our demographics just don't support those types of businesses. High income population in DT Edmonton is tiny. High end condos beyond some nice penthouses and the JW are non-existent. We can support a few smaller players like HS and the Helm.

As for feeling safe, there is low income people in every city on earth, especially downtown areas. Sure, we can work to mitigate and reduce that footprint, but it isn't going to go away. People in small towns will always flock to urban centers, because social supports exist in cities. I don't feel any less safe in Edmonton than I have in other cities I have lived in. Downturns in the economy will also always increase people living on the street and substance abuse. That is not something that downtown Edmonton can solve on its own.

Holt, Harry Rosen, Brooks Brothers, and now Simons are pretty big anchors for CORE. Sure, Chinook has pulled some business, but not all.
 
Thanks. Can't say I blame them really, it's not a great area to visit at the moment.

I was nearly robbed outside of Manulife on 101st in broad daylight in 2018, and things have become progressively worse since.
 
westcoastjos said:
Holt was crap for a long time. That is why many people went elsewhere. HS is decent though.

I don't think we will ever see big expensive anchors in downtown Edmonton - our demographics just don't support those types of businesses. High income population in DT Edmonton is tiny. High end condos beyond some nice penthouses and the JW are non-existent. We can support a few smaller players like HS and the Helm.

As for feeling safe, there is low income people in every city on earth, especially downtown areas. Sure, we can work to mitigate and reduce that footprint, but it isn't going to go away. People in small towns will always flock to urban centers, because social supports exist in cities. I don't feel any less safe in Edmonton than I have in other cities I have lived in. Downturns in the economy will also always increase people living on the street and substance abuse. That is not something that downtown Edmonton can solve on its own.

Holt, Harry Rosen, Brooks Brothers, and now Simons are pretty big anchors for CORE. Sure, Chinook has pulled some business, but not all.
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Holt was crap and barely reinvested in the store, especially the women's section (hello 1990 Eatons feel). That said, 'we' sure didn't give many reasons for people to continue to come for those kinds of items/stores.

People often mistake living Downtown for high income it seems when it is not the case. I remember when Sobeys opened with 5 Red Seal chefs, a giant lobster tank, caviar selections and product lines completely missing the mark.

As for safety, Edmonton feels materially different than Downtown Calgary, Sask, Tor, Ottawa, Mtl, Van and only really compares to Winnipeg in my recent (pre-COVID) experiences. So much so that people who really like Downtown have started to move away. We were making good progress until 2018 and then meth and other changes created a perfect storm. I would regularly walk home from work with more than 50% of the people I run into with mental health issues, aggressive folks or people visibly wearing gang colours.

Sadly, this has become more evident and worse since COVID.
 
IanO said:
Holt was crap and barely reinvested in the store, especially the women's section (hello 1990 Eatons feel). That said, 'we' sure didn't give many reasons for people to continue to come for those kinds of items/stores.

People often mistake living Downtown for high income it seems when it is not the case. I remember when Sobeys opened with 5 Red Seal chefs, a giant lobster tank, caviar selections and product lines completely missing the mark.

As for safety, Edmonton feels materially different than Downtown Calgary, Sask, Tor, Ottawa, Mtl, Van and only really compares to Winnipeg in my recent (pre-COVID) experiences. So much so that people who really like Downtown have started to move away. We were making good progress until 2018 and then meth and other changes created a perfect storm. I would regularly walk home from work with more than 50% of the people I run into with mental health issues, aggressive folks or people visibly wearing gang colours.

Sadly, this has become more evident and worse since COVID.
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BC and largely Vancouver arguably have a worse drug problem than Alberta does, although we are not far behind.

You can be robbed and/or pick pocketed in every city. My point wasn't that other downtowns are completely safe, but rather I don't feel any less safe in Edmonton than elsewhere. Downtown Calgary has a higher homeless population than Edmonton does, but is also more concentrated due to a larger emergency shelter.

www.homelesshub.ca

Which city in Canada has the most homeless people per capita and why? | Homeless Hub

Given the lack of a national Point-In-Time count, it is impossible to report on this completely accurately. We have to use some best guesses and estimates and need to rely on those cities that do count or estimate their population of people experiencing homelessness. In the State of Homelessness...
www.homelesshub.ca www.homelesshub.ca

I agree that many people feel unsafe in Edmonton. That said, many people in other cities across Canada and the USA also feel unsafe. Anecdotal experiences do not necessarily equal data - I have had unpleasant experiences in downtown Edmonton the entire time I have worked downtown going back about ten years. If you ventured into certain areas of downtown before 2018, you would have experienced uncomfortable situations as well. The social problems that exist in Edmonton exist elsewhere. That said, it isn't a secret that Calgary is currently doing a better job at supporting their vulnerable population than Edmonton is. Homeless people I have encountered recently have said that if you can get to Calgary, it is better to be homeless there than it is here.

Any how, this has veered off a little bit from Manulife.
 
Point being that most other cities have more of a visible police presence and more importantly, far more people on their streets at more times of the day. The old adage of 'eyes on the street' is something we continue to struggle with in a chicken or the egg conundrum.

In my previous role, I spent 3.5 years listening to the KPMGs, Avison Youngs, TD banks, E&Ys and many many other international firms telling me that their clients, employees and out of town visitors were providing very real and very negative experiences about Downtown Edmonton. So much so that some were losing out on investors/potential tenants, while others were literally having employees transfer out of their Downtown spaces.

This is a real problem and before COVID.... THE biggest issue facing the area.

Sadly, this paired well with reasons/excuses and other decisions being made at the time.

Retail/Manulife needs people, workers, visitors and whether it be a food hall or a new Simons, that simply will not happen if their experience is one of harassment, a lack of safety and disproportionately filled with 'undesirables'.
 
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