Manulife Place Renovations | 145.99m | 36s | AIMCo | MdeAS

[quit]

Holt was crap and barely reinvested in the store, especially the women's section (hello 1990 Eatons feel). That said, 'we' sure didn't give many reasons for people to continue to come for those kinds of items/stores.

People often mistake living Downtown for high income it seems when it is not the case. I remember when Sobeys opened with 5 Red Seal chefs, a giant lobster tank, caviar selections and product lines completely missing the mark.

As for safety, Edmonton feels materially different than Downtown Calgary, Sask, Tor, Ottawa, Mtl, Van and only really compares to Winnipeg in my recent (pre-COVID) experiences. So much so that people who really like Downtown have started to move away. We were making good progress until 2018 and then meth and other changes created a perfect storm. I would regularly walk home from work with more than 50% of the people I run into with mental health issues, aggressive folks or people visibly wearing gang colours.

Sadly, this has become more evident and worse since COVID.

BC and largely Vancouver arguably have a worse drug problem than Alberta does, although we are not far behind.

You can be robbed and/or pick pocketed in every city. My point wasn't that other downtowns are completely safe, but rather I don't feel any less safe in Edmonton than elsewhere. Downtown Calgary has a higher homeless population than Edmonton does, but is also more concentrated due to a larger emergency shelter.

Which city in Canada has the most homeless people per capita and why? | The Homeless Hub

www.homelesshub.ca

I agree that many people feel unsafe in Edmonton. That said, many people in other cities across Canada and the USA also feel unsafe. Anecdotal experiences do not necessarily equal data - I have had unpleasant experiences in downtown Edmonton the entire time I have worked downtown going back about ten years. If you ventured into certain areas of downtown before 2018, you would have experienced uncomfortable situations as well. The social problems that exist in Edmonton exist elsewhere. That said, it isn't a secret that Calgary is currently doing a better job at supporting their vulnerable population than Edmonton is. Homeless people I have encountered recently have said that if you can get to Calgary, it is better to be homeless there than it is here.

Any how, this has veered off a little bit from Manulife.

 

[IanO]

Point being that most other cities have more of a visible police presence and more importantly, far more people on their streets at more times of the day. The old adage of 'eyes on the street' is something we continue to struggle with in a chicken or the egg conundrum.

In my previous role, I spent 3.5 years listening to the KPMGs, Avison Youngs, TD banks, E&Ys and many many other international firms telling me that their clients, employees and out of town visitors were providing very real and very negative experiences about Downtown Edmonton. So much so that some were losing out on investors/potential tenants, while others were literally having employees transfer out of their Downtown spaces.

This is a real problem and before COVID.... THE biggest issue facing the area.

Sadly, this paired well with reasons/excuses and other decisions being made at the time.

Retail/Manulife needs people, workers, visitors and whether it be a food hall or a new Simons, that simply will not happen if their experience is one of harassment, a lack of safety and disproportionately filled with 'undesirables'.

 

[Clearshades]

It is a lot more than just lacking of shops. It involved lack of city's administration planning. Half of the core is all torn and being constructed in the same area shutting the damn core down. Try navigating yourself on foot let alone traffic vehicles. Turn the former Remand centre into housing/transitioning/educating facilities already; it is a perfect space gof a population that requires all in one. The core is not safe or cleaner until we help this population and that is fact which will remains so until a remedying is applied. A BUILDING iS SITTING EMPTY, SO MAKE USE OF IT!!! Finally, a downtown is for more than the singles 25 - 35 crowds. When do developers get togetherness to come up viable options for the families or retirees . It maybe require outside of the boxing thinking interms of developing and mutually cooperating with other developers for a win win.

 

[Platinum107]

@IanO So, what do you think could happen to make the downtown experience better then?

I'll try to inject some positivity here: I'm not expert on area revitalization, but I believe that if we can somehow address the addiction issue and as many construction projects wrap up, we will be on the right track again, as all the new residential construction happening in the area will bring in more people, and like you said, there will be more "eyes on the ground" to deter nasty activity. It's most prominent when everything is dead, so lets make every not be dead past 5 pm and bring in some more people and things for those people to do, like shop, go to the park, etc. This conversation is making me think of downtown like it's a desolate lawless wasteland that has nothing going for it so I'm posting this mostly to make myself feel better, hopefully it can for some of you guys too

 

[Omega Prime]

One thing I would love to see to help with the street-level activity is actually reducing the number of one-way streets. I believe you get more activity and propensity with two-way traffic and more eyes on street-level retail with more fluid options in the arteries. I think of 103 St. and while I know one side is the mall, having two way traffic would actually allow more eyes on places like Sabor, XO and Evolution. Additionally if we could remove the parking lanes, we could have two-way traffic in conjunction with the existing bike lanes (which are equally as important). I am hoping there is going to be underground parking with the new grocery store building going up, and that the City can strike a deal for people to park there either for free or for reasonable rates. Street-level retail would also be something I'd love to see build into a re-visioning of that old Bay building.

A second option I thought would work well is having elevated patios and/or on rooftops of low-rise buildings. This way, people can enjoy the street-level action, support our businesses, but also sit away from the sidewalks. This could provide a safer experience for patrons, embrace the winter patio concept (summer as well), and allow for more multi-functional usage (e.g. outside parties or receptions at your favorite downtown spots). something I know myself and friends have struggled with in the past downtown.

I know this is the Manulife thread but thought it would be worth mentioning.

 

[IanO]

103st is two-way... and nearly all of the one-way were removed what, 20-25 yrs ago.

Rooftop patios, as what we hope will happen with Manulife, are an important element to the core of city.

 

[Omega Prime]

My bad. I thought it was one-way, my memory served me incorrectly. Would love to see the parking lanes gone though, it clouds the visibility of businesses being outset from the curb.

 

[northlands]

Finally, a downtown is for more than the singles 25 - 35 crowds. When do developers get togetherness to come up viable options for the families or retirees . It maybe require outside of the boxing thinking interms of developing and mutually cooperating with other developers for a win win.

I do hope this isn't lost when planners, policy makers and developers are looking forward but more than anything there needs to be a perception shift.

It really is a big Q of how do you shift that perception of DT being a temporary living space for young single folks before they settle down in the 'burbs to somewhere more permanent.

 

[Platinum107]

I do hope this isn't lost when planners, policy makers and developers are looking forward but more than anything there needs to be a perception shift.

It really is a big Q of how do you shift that perception of DT being a temporary living space for young single folks before they settle down in the 'burbs to somewhere more permanent.

I'd say it'll be a natural shift once more spaces built for families and seniors and more pedestrian-scale development happens, we as a city just have to encourage it and cheer it on when it does happen

 

[IanO]

As mentioned by others before, condo living is a choice/lifestyle for people here, not a requirement due to housing costs or travel times.

While we need to continue to make Central Edmonton more family friendly, the reality is that housing is simply quite attainable and the vast majority of folks will chose that option.

That said, I am all for a more inclusive and inviting core.

 

[Clearshades]

It is not just a matter of having spaces for the families or retirees. Do we need to rethink that equation? Do retirees need to be in the next tower to their families, and if so, how do we go about it- especially with COVID in the picture. Do we need to look at gated urban communities to accommodate families? How do we built gated communities and simulate the look of a core?

 

[Platinum107]

Do we need to look at gated urban communities to accommodate families?

No, we do not. “Gated community” and “urban” are the antithesis of each other.

 

[thommyjo]

I dont think the look of the core is the ideal. It's the diversity, density, walkability, accessibility of services that make an urban core attractive. Gated communities are the opposite. Not diverse, not walkable, not dense, usually not easily accessible to many services.

A condo actually kind of is a gated community though. Security to get in. Often had a certain degree of socio economic homogeneity.

We just need safe, affordable, and highly livable streets. Which we are making slow progress on. Lots of seniors do live in the core actually!

 

[Omega Prime]

I always though a series of "missing middle" housing projects in the Warehouse district would be a fantastic way to bridge that gap. There seems to be enough space around to handle that - not something that's always available in major metropolitan downtown areas. Tall commercial on one side, tall residential to the south/southwest, and then mid-rise retail until in Oliver. If it was somehow abridged into the Central Park master plan that would be pretty neat too. Would be a pretty unique way to have "downtown living" without condos being the only option.

 

[tkoe_]

While it certainly would be better to have a larger population downtown that was prepared to spend on higher priced items, I really agree with the sentiment that the entire DT experience needs to be improved. I would guess that most major downtowns do not rely solely on local populations to sustain them, but also attract large numbers of people from elsewhere looking for a specific urban experience.

In general, Edmonton's downtown still suffers from poor maintenance, lack of greenery, bad interaction between public and private spaces, public disorder, etc. The good news is that things are improving and infrastructure like the Valley Line will hopefully be catalytic in moving more people through downtown.

Bottom line for me -- if people will fly to Van for the weekend, they will support the same types of urban experiences in downtown Edmonton if done right.