Edmcowboy11
Senior Member
Especially in this day and age of the carcentric population, saying that roads lose out to everything else we'll just get a bunch of drivers up in arms again as usual.
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Suburban Development and Sprawl
- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
NicolBolas
Active Member
I find this to be absolutely the most insane thing.
The city approves a insolvent development model and continues to do so for years but then blames development for being insolvent and has to increase tax?
The city approves a insolvent development model and continues to do so for years but then blames development for being insolvent and has to increase tax?
MacLac
Senior Member
HUGE shopping plaza under construction in southwest Edmonton | Daily Hive | Urbanized
Residents in southwest Edmonton will soon have more access to shops, and services, with a new commercial plaza currently under construction.
dailyhive.com
archited
Senior Member
They lost me at Walmart Supercentre
EtoV
Active Member
Just what we need, another "power" centreHUGE shopping plaza under construction in southwest Edmonton | Daily Hive | Urbanized
Residents in southwest Edmonton will soon have more access to shops, and services, with a new commercial plaza currently under construction.
Oilers99
Active Member
how about instead of criticizing we recognize a 30 acre development will service ~100k Edmontonians...
Payd1964
New Member
And provide taxes and jobs. Plus I thought the City wanted 15 minute communities. My daughter and her family can walk to the site. Plus there are two major multi use paths east of Heritage Valley Trail providing direct access to the site, and more being constructed on the west side as well. For instance you can bicycle from Ellerslie Road to 41 Avenue without crossing a major arterial. I know this isn't the type of development that some on this board like, but people in the "burbs" are very active . . . our trail network is extensively used and can be easily accessed. Again, serving thousands of people . . . .unfortunately with the hospital getting shelved there will be a massive doughnut of vacant land in Heritage Valley, so potentially linkages between the eastern and western sides won't be completed for some time to come.
TAS
Senior Member
In terms of design, I would love to see new districts move away from power center design with very large parking lots and lots of concrete to more of a town center/mainstreet design that has some mixed use built in, is a more pleasant pedestrian experience and more of a community hub.
Having the multi-use paths well connected is great. But the quality of experience of power centre versus mixed-use town centre is not as good - but I recognize I'm probably in minority. In terms of comparison below, the key advantages (cost) is obviously a driving factor.
archited
Senior Member
It's not the plaza shopping centre that I object to it is Walmart and that ilk that destroy more discerning retail.
archited
Senior Member
Something like https://www.shopcommons.com/visit/ the Commons at Calabasas except in an Edmonton Design Vernacular.
ADob
Active Member
It's great to have all these services nearby and accessible for local residents, but does it have to be so damn ugly and car-centric? Why not offer the same shops, services, restaurants, etc, but in a park-once format? Everyone seems to hate South Common, which is brutal for drivers and pedestrians alike, yet we keep building more of the same!
thommyjo
Senior Member
With all due respect, accessible by walking vs “walkable” aren’t the same.
95% of shoppers will drive to this. The parking lot and comparables nearby prove that (currents in windemere)
Just because stuff is close, doesn’t mean it’s not car dependent in design.
This is just another car dependent, big box retail strip mall that’ll induce car use further. Nothing to celebrate. It’ll be low revenue per sqft for taxes too.
“People in the burbs are active”. Sure…. That’s why all those neighborhoods have less than 1% walking and biking rates on the census vs 5-15% for mature neighborhoods?
johnnyboy
Active Member
You mean more cladding and less vowels?
EtoV
Active Member
So? They can do those same things in less area if they chose to build using even remotely urbanist design principles.
You don't have to build Manhattan to build commercial that's more walkable and accessible to more people than a strip mall.
Even something like this is far preferable. Yes it's a power centre, but it also has mixed use buildings, plazas, and semi attractive streetscapes areas.
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
maps.app.goo.gl
Wild that something like this could be considered above criticism simply because there are some benefits
Payd1964
New Member
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am not an idiot. I am just offering an opinion that differs from yours. I know that a lot of people on this Board hate suburbia, and given the title of the thread, that speaks volumes given that it is so offensive. Imagine if the Capital Line Thread was labeled “North South Crime and Homeless Highway”?
It does appear that “Pierre Poilievre of the left” on City Council loves to pit neighbourhood against neighbourhood. Cool, as he is catering to his base. However the inconvenient truth is that no residential development has historically paid for themselves. When the post WWII neighbourhoods, with their massively inefficient street network and huge predominantly single family lots, were built, their taxes were subsidized by industrial and commercial taxes, just like now.
I would argue that the tax situation that we are in now isn’t caused by suburban development, and instead it is a result of the City not doing enough to attract industry. The City has made residential development a priority on much of the lands beyond the Henday, whereas I would contend that much of this land should have been dedicated to industrial development.
Around twenty years ago one Alberta municipality undertook a comprehensive cost of community services study. It found that it spent $1.81 in servicing every $1 in residential collected; $0.74 in servicing every $1 in commercial taxes collected; and $0.09 in servicing every $1 in industrial tax collected. Hence the municipality focused its economic development efforts on attracting and retaining commercial and industrial businesses and requiring residential development to densify.
Fast forward to Edmonton today. Commercial is in trouble due to on line shopping. I would argue that Amazon, while they may have one? warehouse in Edmonton, is a net drain on the City due to infrastructure costs as a result of their trucks and vans using our streets, and their packaging entering our waste stream. Services have replaced some commercial, but to think that every six storey building should have the main floor dedicated to commercial is a fantasy. Where Edmonton has always been weak, is attracting industrial development. Calgary has done a far better job of this, as witnessed by the massive number of new light industrial warehousing and distribution builds that have gone up over the past several years. Before everyone jumps on me to say that the surrounding rural municipalities have lower taxes, there are tools in the Municipal Government Act that allow municipalities to provide incentives. Edmonton could heavily incent the first 10 to 15 years on taxes to match surrounding rurals, given that the ROI is so great.