policyenthusiast
Senior Member
The LRT.
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Municipal Politics
- Thread starter Airboy
- Start date
TAS
Senior Member
Kosy123
Senior Member
Yeah the whole "either or" when it came to bike infrastructure or downtown investment is something I'm not a fan of at all. The same detractors of bike investment are almost always the same group who view downtown investment as a waste of money already. I don't think it's wise to try and win some of that demographic over.
I'd even argue that with e-scooters and e-bikes, downtown benefits much more from active transportation than it ever did, and will probably continue to do so.
I'd even argue that with e-scooters and e-bikes, downtown benefits much more from active transportation than it ever did, and will probably continue to do so.
Greenspace
Senior Member
Our biggest infrastructure line item now is transit, especially on the capital side. All our provincial money is going to LRT expansion.
The reality is bike commuting is about 2% of all commuters, give or take if there were a newer census done, maybe 5%. That's about what Councillor Salvador stated is being spent of road renewal as a percentage in a recent post yesterday and makes sense to me.
Like Downtown, bike infrastructure is a used as a pawn in political discussion, right or left leaning. I'm not a fan of that, just what makes good policy and good governance.
The reality is bike commuting is about 2% of all commuters, give or take if there were a newer census done, maybe 5%. That's about what Councillor Salvador stated is being spent of road renewal as a percentage in a recent post yesterday and makes sense to me.
Like Downtown, bike infrastructure is a used as a pawn in political discussion, right or left leaning. I'm not a fan of that, just what makes good policy and good governance.
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TAS
Senior Member
For commuting it's 2%, but more people tend to use their bikes than that figure outside of going to work.
Globally, 60% of all urban trips are less than 5km. A quarter are shorter than 1km and of those, half are travelled by vehicle. So much opportunity to relieve congestion, reduce parking demands and improve health.
My condo neighbour orders skip the dishes for Cactus Club that is less than 2 blocks away. He is not physically limited. "I'm lazy", he says.
thommyjo
Senior Member
This is what kills me. So called “common sense”, “fiscally conservative”, “do the math”, etc types seem incapable of comprehending that the 25mil/year for 4 years is literally proportional to the data we have on “primary transportation mode being biking” people. This doesn’t include the many more “fair weather” bikers or people who bike once or twice a week in the summer.
The 2% number also isn’t inclusive to kids/youth. They sort of matter too.
So if someone wants common sense spending on bike lanes related to usage, they should be supporting $30+ mil a year actually. Every year, in perpetuity, and likely increasing too. (And none of this would factor in decades of disproportional investment).
Now, as a year round biker, I also think transit is 100% the more important investment. At best we’ll get to 8-10% of our city biking in summers in 15-20 years. But we could see 25-35% on transit easily with the right plan. That should be the focus.
But I’d argue it also is. We’ve spent billions and billions on LRT, new buses, garages, etc. So it’s happening.
trevorhayden
Active Member
BILD and DBA are always quick to criticize the City of Edmonton, but when it comes to the UCP? Crickets. It's all political. If they really wanted more support for downtown, they would ask the UCP to give back the $60,000,000 they owe us.
policyenthusiast
Senior Member
The DBA is a local organization so the UCP is typically above their scope, and BILD has a provincial administrative body for provincial politics (BILD Alberta) but they mainly focus on non-partisan issues like building codes. Member-governed community organizations are typically much better off if they don't play sides with political parties.
Except the Calgary Chamber of Commerce, for some reason.
Greenspace
Senior Member
EDBA's biggest 'partner' is the City of Edmonton. They deal with them on a daily basis. Also deal with the province in safety and other issues but that might not be as apparent. Lots of lobbying going on always, especially around more money.
I've commented on the $60m before, but the province doesn't pay property taxes, they provide grants in lieu which were reduced in 2019 ($14m/year). However they also provide large capital grants during budget time, which are more targeted based on the City's asks. I believe the mayor and other Councillors continuing to harp on this is counterproductive and a distraction from the overall tax increases, which are almost $500m. $14m is nice to have but not going to fix those structural problems.
I've commented on the $60m before, but the province doesn't pay property taxes, they provide grants in lieu which were reduced in 2019 ($14m/year). However they also provide large capital grants during budget time, which are more targeted based on the City's asks. I believe the mayor and other Councillors continuing to harp on this is counterproductive and a distraction from the overall tax increases, which are almost $500m. $14m is nice to have but not going to fix those structural problems.
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Kosy123
Senior Member
https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/col...f-commerce-fails-as-advocate-for-edmontonians
Personally want to bleach my eyes after reading that, but yeah, the same fiscal hawks decrying bike lanes will be the same fiscal hawks decrying investment in downtown. Genuinely don't see a point pandering to this audience if you're a downtown advocate.
Personally want to bleach my eyes after reading that, but yeah, the same fiscal hawks decrying bike lanes will be the same fiscal hawks decrying investment in downtown. Genuinely don't see a point pandering to this audience if you're a downtown advocate.
thommyjo
Senior Member
It’s this weird “old power” group of Edmontonians. The sort of people behind Edify. They’re suburbanites who happen to live in Glenora and work DT, but they don’t think about cities and transportation and those things like true urbanites and city builders.
Gus Haynes
Active Member
Hyrciw is definitely picking some provocative targets, but it's definitely emblematic of a real shitty hand that our city council has to deal with. Stakeholders are actively trying to rob Peter to pay Paul. I don't think it's going to turn out well.
Gronk!
Senior Member
I refuse to read the Edmonton Sun because of asshats such as Lorne Gunter.
David A
Senior Member
Thanks - 2%, not 25%. There is a lot of concern among citizens facing big tax increases about how city money is being spent, it is a mistake to portray it just a left right thing.
There is also a general feeling, rightly or wrongly, that the amount being spent on bike infrastructure is out of line with the number of people who use or will use it. This is why it keeps getting brought up.
kcantor
Senior Member
On one hand, it's easy to point out the shitty hand that Edmonton's council has to deal with.
On the other hand, it's worth remembering that Edmonton's council had been both dealer and pit boss in this game for a long time.