LRT Safety

[Kosy123]

I went through Coliseum Station this past Friday on my way for some brewskies downtown with some friends. A side from a drunk/high girl following me up the escalator and trying to start a fight, it wasn't that bad... then I got to Central Station and made the mistake of trying to exit out onto 101 street by Bistro Praha. What a sad, disgusting scene the stairwell up to the street is. I'll never do that again

That stairwell is probably the worst one in the system, I've seen enough people loitering at that entrance over the last few months. I'm not sure why they haven't flagged that area for patrols more.

What I find irritating is how councillors and the Mayor keep saying how these incidences keep effecting the ‘perception of safety’ around transit. No, there is a *reality* problem with transit safety. It’s not just ‘in our heads’.

Unpopular take, but I actually I sort of agree with them. Statistically, things have been getting better incident wise. But that doesn't affect perception of LRT safety as much as these incidents do. Does that mean we don't do anything? Nope. We need to do more and invest more in security, safety, etc for transit. I'm all for increasing that and focusing more on that, but there is a disconnect after a while.

One example that I found of this was someone from the Western Standard (yes that Western Standard) coming here from Calgary trying to write and tweet a hit piece about our LRT, obviously based on the news reports and the perception from rural/suburban conservatives about transit. The end result was that it wasn't as bad as they expected and didn't really tweet more about it. (Weirdly enough, I think they mentioned it was better than the C-train but that's a different discussion altogether, and probably indicative that Calgary's issues will eclipse ours as their housing market shatters and increases.)

Peak hours in the weekdays, I've had no issues at all, and there's intense security at stations along that time and I don't feel anything weird. I mostly ride the trains off peak hours (so my experience is different than others, and others have different experiences which is par the course) and while there's been some issues I've noticed, it's still quite safe. Granted, I think they need to allocate more security and presence during off peak hours since that's when we seem to be getting these incidents. There really isn't as much enforcements on the weekends.

Perception does become reality though, and I think that's what needs to be understood by all parties. It's why turnstiles (while not really being that more effective tbh) should be put in for perception purposes rather than actual deterrence.

Is it time we look at having transit police like Vancouver does? That's two big incidences at Coliseum station within a month. Something has to give here at some point! Like, come on!

I'm all for it but you'll have to convince people that a property tax increase is needed for that.

 

[occidentalcapital]

Turnstiles/fare gates. Now. That is all.

 

[Foolworm]

I just can’t believe that a multi billion dollar system with hundreds of thousands of weekly users isn’t being sorted with more urgency.

Imagine if this was a road, how quickly we’d seek to fix it if it consistently caused injuries and had major shutdowns every few days.

You may be unhappy to know that Edmonton treats its roads equally. Things like potholes going unrepaired for months despite 311 reports and insurance claims abound. Remember when Low Level had that lane closure for an entire winter to do emergency repairs?

At this point, I'd say the issue of crime and security is a general one - see the recent lockdowns at WEM and Kingsway. Sourly, I think the Province is aggravating the issue by not offering help but blaming the City instead.

 

[Kosy123]

You may be unhappy to know that Edmonton treats its roads equally. Things like potholes going unrepaired for months despite 311 reports and insurance claims abound. Remember when Low Level was shut down an entire winter without warning?

At this point, I'd say the issue of crime and security is a general one - see the recent lockdowns at WEM and Kingsway. Sourly, I think the Province is aggravating the issue by not offering help but blaming the City instead.

Nah that's definitely part of the province's strategy at this point. Calgary's been insane with the increase in crime and perception of crime as well, arguably worse than us.

It's what we get for having a government mostly composed of suburban and rural MLA's, some of whom are beholden to a rural right wing populist mantra. They literally don't care as much, you'd have to go straight to the Premier who, for all intents and purposes, is now slowly becoming the more moderate voice on her party.

 

[CplKlinger]

Turnstiles/fare gates. Now. That is all.

Cartmell is proposing a pilot on December 12. It'd last for two years and involve two stations—one underground and one above ground.

Renewed safety concerns after several attacks at Coliseum LRT Station in Edmonton - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

Two people were violently attacked last month at the Coliseum LRT Station, shocking Edmonton transit riders and prompting it to become a point of discussion at city hall.

globalnews.ca

 

[_urbanite]

Turnstiles/fare gates. Now. That is all.

Councillor Paquette talked about this on Reddit yesterday. He said the estimates to install fare gates are about $400 million for Edmonton, $600 million for Calgary....

This is pretty ridiculous. Even if they have to build walls around the gates, I can't understand how it even comes close to that price tag.

 

[BASE]

That price tag is a tad ridiculous imho. I have a suspicion people really inflate a number to scare off the idea when it's something they don't like. There are examples to compare to. St. Louis is in the process of moving to fare gates for 38 stations at a cost of 52 Million USD. So with our construction and exchange call it 100 Mil which is a long ways from that quote.

Moreover I like the idea of trialing a couple stations and see how it works. I like the idea of implementing it into station renovations as they come up, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Fare gates are 1 tool of many that should be considered/deployed and it's time to start thinking a little outside the box as a couple more officers here or there isn't going to do it on it's own either.

 

[Foolworm]

That price tag is a tad ridiculous imho. I have a suspicion people really inflate a number to scare off the idea when it's something they don't like. There are examples to compare to. St. Louis is in the process of moving to fare gates for 38 stations at a cost of 52 Million USD. So with our construction and exchange call it 100 Mil which is a long ways from that quote.

Moreover I like the idea of trialing a couple stations and see how it works. I like the idea of implementing it into station renovations as they come up, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Fare gates are 1 tool of many that should be considered/deployed and it's time to start thinking a little outside the box as a couple more officers here or there isn't going to do it on it's own either.

Some context goes a long way here, the St Louis project is almost definitely a lowball figure and will go into the 100+ million mark. They want to add turnstiles and reconfigure all their stations PLUS a new fare payment system.

Honestly, I'd say project costs are lowballed to get it approved in the first place, and then there's sticker shock when the invoices come in.

Here the Arc system alone cost $50 million, and that was before the post-pandemic price escalations. Even if most of our existing high floor LRT stations are set up for fare gates, it shouldn't be a surprise that the cost of putting them in would run into the hundreds of millions. People don't really have a sense of what they get for their money nowadays.

 

[David A]

Councillor Paquette talked about this on Reddit yesterday. He said the estimates to install fare gates are about $400 million for Edmonton, $600 million for Calgary....

This is pretty ridiculous. Even if they have to build walls around the gates, I can't understand how it even comes close to that price tag.

Governments have an amazing ability these days to make relatively simple things very complicated and expensive, particularly when administration is not eager to do it..

The companies that get these contracts must love these total suckers and there is little scrutiny by council of what administration does.

 

[whattheheck]

The reality is the city doesn't want turn styles because it distracts from their vision of the utopia they're building in their mind, where life is perfect and everyone sips latte's all day long, working 7 hours a day.

Paquette is a part of that, hence the figure he throws out. It's all just an exercise to scare-monger. It's not just the UCP who does it.

Why is it that major transit systems all over the world have fare gates, but Edmonton is so uniquely special that it's too expensive/ cost prohibitive/ not needed/ insert any other excuse.

Ottawa ensured far gates were in place for their O-train.

Paquette wants transit to be free. And he knows a move towards fare gates will mean that 'dream' will forever be off the table.

 

[Gronk!]

So many good things to be had for $400 million, such as affordable housing, law enforcement or LRT extension to St. Albert. I want fare gates installed, but that cost amounts to highway robbery.

 

[soupcrate]

Councillor Paquette talked about this on Reddit yesterday. He said the estimates to install fare gates are about $400 million for Edmonton, $600 million for Calgary....

This is pretty ridiculous. Even if they have to build walls around the gates, I can't understand how it even comes close to that price tag.

That number is disingenuous. It's taken from Calgary, where all of their stations are above ground and would need huge renovations to add fare gates.

 

[Gronk!]

Police superintendent backs idea to add turnstiles to Edmonton LRT system - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

An Edmonton police superintendent who oversees transit officers is adding his support to the city adding turnstiles to its LRT system.

globalnews.ca

 

[Garneau2Go]

I'm on team fare gates but it's not a panacea and don't help if a bad actor buys a fare, hops on at another station, or camps out in front of the fare zone.

Actually solving this problem is going to take orders of magnitude more than 100 million or whatever it costs to install them. It requires more resources for the court system, drug addiction, mental health, enforcement, shelter space, and monitoring.

Balking at the cost of fare gates is really underselling how much it's going to cost because LRT safety is probably a billion+ dollar problem at this point, and mostly on the province.

 

[Greenspace]

Councillor Paquette talked about this on Reddit yesterday. He said the estimates to install fare gates are about $400 million for Edmonton, $600 million for Calgary....

This is pretty ridiculous. Even if they have to build walls around the gates, I can't understand how it even comes close to that price tag.

Councillor Cartmell talked in the Global story above about trying to do a 2 year pilot for 2 stations, one above ground and one below ground. Not sure what the cost would be.