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LRT Expansion Planning

Habibfazil said:
Forgot to ask, rail connection from where.

The LRT to the airport would be sweet, but doubt we have the volume to support it at rush hour frequency, and if we intend airline passengers, room will need to be set aside for luggage which negates it's passenger carrying capacity elsewhere on the city lines.

Right now the 747 at a more frequent level PLUS free/seamless interchange to other ETS modes would be a interim dream...
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Probably downtown. Downtown rail line would probably be a tourism/business/conference focus while an LRT line would have a good chunk of commuting, considering EIA weirdly has a lot of employment around it.

But yeah the 747 NEEDS to be beefed up soon.
The_Cat said:
Cartmell has gone on too long about the BRT.
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I’d honestly love if Cartmell had BRT obsession in the right places.

It’s still incredibly amusing to see that he’s still salty over Valley Line West, despite it probably changing the transit fabric of this city the most ever since the LRT probably first opened tbh
 
trevorhayden said:
With Edmonton's ultra fast population growth, do you think the City should reopen the transit plan to accelerate expansion of the LRT and BRT networks?
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Here's my predictions for the future of mass transit planning in Edmonton in the next few decades, based on what I've read in city policy + my own interpretation of things:

2020-2030:
  • We will be close to finished the full currently planned LRT network, with Metro Line North probably still under construction but majorly done. Capital Line South phase 1 and VLW will be done, with South phase 2 in procurement as well. Overall, no changes to the plans this decade.
  • 2) the first of three BRT lines will be in early stages of construction, most likely the Ambleside (Windermere) to University alignment as it is already partially U/C with the Terwillegar Drive expansion project. The other two lines will be in the detailed design stages, with the WEM - Bonnie Doon line up next for construction. Overall, no changes to the plans, just further development of them.
2030-2040:
  • LRT network as planned is completed, including Capital phase 2. At this point, the city will most likely be doing detailed design and potentially even pre-construction works for extensions to the existing lines, such as a) Capital line north to Gorman and Horse Hill, b) Valley Line further west to Lewis Farms Rec Centre and South to Walker/Meltwater, and c) Metro Line North into St. Albert. There probably won't be any new LRT lines proposed for the city this decade, unfortunately.
  • Because of the super high growth rate Edmonton will most likely experience, we'll have the full BRT network done by this time. By this point, we have a pretty solid transit network with city-wide connections and redundancies. The only major factor missing are circumferential lines.
2040-2050: (End of current City Plan timeframe)
  • By the end of this decade, we may finally revisit the network and look at new LRT lines. There's two good candidates IMO:
    • A "South Crosstown" line, running from WEM-Meadows in the centre median of the Whitemud. The south side will probably warrant a connection by this point that doesn't force you to go downtown.
    • A "West Jasper" line, running down west Jasper Ave through Wihkwentowin underground, up 124th street underground, then going at grade to the Westmount Mall area and TWOSE. the west central side of Edmonton will probably be very dense and still growing even at this time, and Westmount mall is another site prime for a huge TOD, so I see this as being a warranted redundant line by this point.
  • I have a feeling that transit prioritization will be much more ubiquitous and popular than now by the 2040's, so many major roads around Edmonton will probably have bus-only lanes and frequency which could be considered "BRT" by today's standards.
Beyond this, I have no idea!
 
Platinum107 said:
Here's my predictions for the future of mass transit planning in Edmonton in the next few decades, based on what I've read in city policy + my own interpretation of things:

2020-2030:
  • We will be close to finished the full currently planned LRT network, with Metro Line North probably still under construction but majorly done. Capital Line South phase 1 and VLW will be done, with South phase 2 in procurement as well. Overall, no changes to the plans this decade.
  • 2) the first of three BRT lines will be in early stages of construction, most likely the Ambleside (Windermere) to University alignment as it is already partially U/C with the Terwillegar Drive expansion project. The other two lines will be in the detailed design stages, with the WEM - Bonnie Doon line up next for construction. Overall, no changes to the plans, just further development of them.
2030-2040:
  • LRT network as planned is completed, including Capital phase 2. At this point, the city will most likely be doing detailed design and potentially even pre-construction works for extensions to the existing lines, such as a) Capital line north to Gorman and Horse Hill, b) Valley Line further west to Lewis Farms Rec Centre and South to Walker/Meltwater, and c) Metro Line North into St. Albert. There probably won't be any new LRT lines proposed for the city this decade, unfortunately.
  • Because of the super high growth rate Edmonton will most likely experience, we'll have the full BRT network done by this time. By this point, we have a pretty solid transit network with city-wide connections and redundancies. The only major factor missing are circumferential lines.
2040-2050: (End of current City Plan timeframe)
  • By the end of this decade, we may finally revisit the network and look at new LRT lines. There's two good candidates IMO:
    • A "South Crosstown" line, running from WEM-Meadows in the centre median of the Whitemud. The south side will probably warrant a connection by this point that doesn't force you to go downtown.
    • A "West Jasper" line, running down west Jasper Ave through Wihkwentowin underground, up 124th street underground, then going at grade to the Westmount Mall area and TWOSE. the west central side of Edmonton will probably be very dense and still growing even at this time, and Westmount mall is another site prime for a huge TOD, so I see this as being a warranted redundant line by this point.
  • I have a feeling that transit prioritization will be much more ubiquitous and popular than now by the 2040's, so many major roads around Edmonton will probably have bus-only lanes and frequency which could be considered "BRT" by today's standards.
Beyond this, I have no idea!
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Great analysis!

I wonder if/when Edmonton will start considering regional rail. I would think it would start to come on the horizon if/when HSR starts being seriously considered between EDM and CGY as the main stations would be constructed, likely at Strathcona Junction and then another central station somewhere downtown.
 
erudyk_29 said:
Great analysis!

I wonder if/when Edmonton will start considering regional rail. I would think it would start to come on the horizon if/when HSR starts being seriously considered between EDM and CGY as the main stations would be constructed, likely at Strathcona Junction and then another central station somewhere downtown.
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There is one major problem, expense getting into downtown, unless they incorporate a rail line with a new bridge that replaces the high level bridge, but even then, the cost!!!
 
erudyk_29 said:
Great analysis!

I wonder if/when Edmonton will start considering regional rail. I would think it would start to come on the horizon if/when HSR starts being seriously considered between EDM and CGY as the main stations would be constructed, likely at Strathcona Junction and then another central station somewhere downtown.
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Yes, the Valley Line (I still have an issue with calling that as 90% of it is not in any valley, but we do have a thing for nice, but confusing and misleading names) will add a lot of km and access to the system probably the greatest expansion of the system in its reach in such a short period of time. After that more modest growth north and south.

I feel commuter rail may be next, if planned properly commuter rail, LRT and HSR could all eventually be integrated quite nicely. But we are talking decades here, so time lines are rough. Some things could go faster or slower.
 
I think the simple solution for HSR is something like Strathcona-YEG-Red Deer-YYC-Calgary. The question is whether the line will terminate in Edmonton.
 
Myself and another volunteer with the Edmonton Radial Railway Society Archive scanned a bunch of LRT-related documents in our collection, and I thought you might find them interesting. There are three sections:

-The main folder primarily has reports and plans, operations manuals, and some magazine articles from when the line opened.

-The sub-folder "Bob Clark Documents" has material donated by Robert Clark and his estate. Robert was an ERRS member and ETS staff who was instrumental in setting up Edmonton's LRT system. As such, these documents are primarily from the mid-70s, and include documents related to key decision points about station and system design, meeting minutes and memos from the team of city staff planning the system, and even a draft council report (complete with markup and some commentary) requesting approval for procuring the U2s. One of my favourite finds in this group of documents was a memo where the operations section of ETS expressed concern that the design of the north-east line was too subway-esque, and would decrease support of *true* lrt designs like what they wanted introduced in the future (a fear that ended up coming true as we see with pushback to the Valley Line's design), and that it would also increase the risk of the federal transportation authority practicing oversight on the system (since it oversees railways, but not street railways/tramways, so that distinction matters a lot).

-The third folder has photos that Robert took of system construction, LRV delivery, early service, etc.

If you do discuss/share the documents or photos anywhere, please just give credit to Robert Clark and the ERRS Archive where applicable. I hope you find some of this stuff interesting.

Edmonton LRT, 1960s-1990s - Google Drive

drive.google.com drive.google.com
 
CplKlinger said:
Myself and another volunteer with the Edmonton Radial Railway Society Archive scanned a bunch of LRT-related documents in our collection, and I thought you might find them interesting. There are three sections:

-The main folder primarily has reports and plans, operations manuals, and some magazine articles from when the line opened.

-The sub-folder "Bob Clark Documents" has material donated by Robert Clark and his estate. Robert was an ERRS member and ETS staff who was instrumental in setting up Edmonton's LRT system. As such, these documents are primarily from the mid-70s, and include documents related to key decision points about station and system design, meeting minutes and memos from the team of city staff planning the system, and even a draft council report (complete with markup and some commentary) requesting approval for procuring the U2s. One of my favourite finds in this group of documents was a memo where the operations section of ETS expressed concern that the design of the north-east line was too subway-esque, and would decrease support of *true* lrt designs like what they wanted introduced in the future (a fear that ended up coming true as we see with pushback to the Valley Line's design), and that it would also increase the risk of the federal transportation authority practicing oversight on the system (since it oversees railways, but not street railways/tramways, so that distinction matters a lot).

-The third folder has photos that Robert took of system construction, LRV delivery, early service, etc.

If you do discuss/share the documents or photos anywhere, please just give credit to Robert Clark and the ERRS Archive where applicable. I hope you find some of this stuff interesting.

Edmonton LRT, 1960s-1990s - Google Drive

drive.google.com drive.google.com
Click to expand...

This is super cool to see, thanks for sharing this!!
 
CplKlinger said:
Myself and another volunteer with the Edmonton Radial Railway Society Archive scanned a bunch of LRT-related documents in our collection, and I thought you might find them interesting. There are three sections:

-The main folder primarily has reports and plans, operations manuals, and some magazine articles from when the line opened.

-The sub-folder "Bob Clark Documents" has material donated by Robert Clark and his estate. Robert was an ERRS member and ETS staff who was instrumental in setting up Edmonton's LRT system. As such, these documents are primarily from the mid-70s, and include documents related to key decision points about station and system design, meeting minutes and memos from the team of city staff planning the system, and even a draft council report (complete with markup and some commentary) requesting approval for procuring the U2s. One of my favourite finds in this group of documents was a memo where the operations section of ETS expressed concern that the design of the north-east line was too subway-esque, and would decrease support of *true* lrt designs like what they wanted introduced in the future (a fear that ended up coming true as we see with pushback to the Valley Line's design), and that it would also increase the risk of the federal transportation authority practicing oversight on the system (since it oversees railways, but not street railways/tramways, so that distinction matters a lot).

-The third folder has photos that Robert took of system construction, LRV delivery, early service, etc.

If you do discuss/share the documents or photos anywhere, please just give credit to Robert Clark and the ERRS Archive where applicable. I hope you find some of this stuff interesting.

Edmonton LRT, 1960s-1990s - Google Drive

drive.google.com drive.google.com
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this, Bob is mine and @EtoV's grandfather and there's a lot in those files I haven't seen before! Really happy that people are still finding his life's work fascinating. Aside from his work on the Edmonton LRT he also did design work on the Vancouver Skytrain and was instrumental in getting the Nelson BC, and Fort Ed/High Level Streetcars back up and running!
 
realkevbo said:
Thanks for sharing this, Bob is mine and @EtoV's grandfather and there's a lot in those files I haven't seen before! Really happy that people are still finding his life's work fascinating. Aside from his work on the Edmonton LRT he also did design work on the Vancouver Skytrain and was instrumental in getting the Nelson BC, and Fort Ed/High Level Streetcars back up and running!
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Oh my goodness, thank you so much for taking the time to reply! Bob is a very well known figure among us Archive volunteers, given that his fonds make up a great deal of our collection. You're right, he was truly a transformational figure, and the ERRS would not be what it is had it not been for his efforts - let alone rapid transit in Edmonton and Vancouver! We're so fortunate and grateful that we have these windows into his work.
 
EtoV said:
A sincere thank you for carrying on and achiving his legacy @CplKlinger ! Upon his passing I was given quite a few of his documents and files as well. If I find anything that you have not already archived I will be sure to send them your way!
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Thank you for taking the time to respond, I am so glad to know that you appreciate it! It's very kind of you to offer donating some of his materials of the Archive doesn't have them already, thank you for that generosity. Bob is truly continuing to educate and inspire people :)
 
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