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LRT Expansion Planning

Since this is the "LRT Expansion Planning" thread, I really recommend people go look in detail at a system like the Frankfurt U-Bahn, I will have a video on it soonish, but it uses the exact same standards and compatible vehicles to both Edmonton and Calgary (including the U2 back in the day), but the design of the network and infrastructure is totally different (they have 3 subway tunnels downtown criss crossing).

The things I would suggest are worth thinking about:

- Network Topology
- Grade Separation and ROW design (in Frankfurt you are typically grade separated unless you are on a branch which become increasingly tram like as service frequency goes down)
- Infrastructure Design
- The fact that Frankfurt has both an U-Bahn (Similar to the traditional high floor LRT in Edmonton - a Subway style system), Trams (Similar to the Valley Line, but also lots to learn here), and of course lots of regional and suburban trains

A good example of where a lot of learning could happen is looking at the U5-25 and U5-KR trains, which allow Frankfurt to connect up multiple LRVs (think the trains on the Capital and Metro Line) into longer walkthrough trains (like you will see in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal), there isn't a good reason Edmonton shouldn't try to go for a design like this for future vehicles (its also a good reminder that the idea that high floor LRT vehicles are no longer built or obsolete is ridiculous):
1713731570949.png

1713731592656.png

1713731621915.png


Here's a map of the system:
1713731440971.png
 
Reecemartin said:
Since this is the "LRT Expansion Planning" thread, I really recommend people go look in detail at a system like the Frankfurt U-Bahn, I will have a video on it soonish, but it uses the exact same standards and compatible vehicles to both Edmonton and Calgary (including the U2 back in the day), but the design of the network and infrastructure is totally different (they have 3 subway tunnels downtown criss crossing).

The things I would suggest are worth thinking about:

- Network Topology
- Grade Separation and ROW design (in Frankfurt you are typically grade separated unless you are on a branch which become increasingly tram like as service frequency goes down)
- Infrastructure Design
- The fact that Frankfurt has both an U-Bahn (Similar to the traditional high floor LRT in Edmonton - a Subway style system), Trams (Similar to the Valley Line, but also lots to learn here), and of course lots of regional and suburban trains

A good example of where a lot of learning could happen is looking at the U5-25 and U5-KR trains, which allow Frankfurt to connect up multiple LRVs (think the trains on the Capital and Metro Line) into longer walkthrough trains (like you will see in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal), there isn't a good reason Edmonton shouldn't try to go for a design like this for future vehicles (its also a good reminder that the idea that high floor LRT vehicles are no longer built or obsolete is ridiculous):
View attachment 558147
View attachment 558148
View attachment 558149

Here's a map of the system:
View attachment 558144
Click to expand...
Oh shoot, I didn't realize you were active on this forum! Your videos are a huge part of why I'm interested in public transit.

That said I really like the idea of walkthrough trains. Edmonton was recently taking feedback on the layout of the new trains, (just the seating arrangements), but in the comment submission box I saw the idea of walkthrough trains mentioned. It didn't seem very upvoted unfortunately, but maybe someone at the city will notice is.

I'm sad to admit I haven't really dug into other systems around the world, that sounds like an excellent way to generate ideas to improve our local transit system.
 
Reecemartin said:
Since this is the "LRT Expansion Planning" thread, I really recommend people go look in detail at a system like the Frankfurt U-Bahn, I will have a video on it soonish, but it uses the exact same standards and compatible vehicles to both Edmonton and Calgary (including the U2 back in the day), but the design of the network and infrastructure is totally different (they have 3 subway tunnels downtown criss crossing).

The things I would suggest are worth thinking about:

- Network Topology
- Grade Separation and ROW design (in Frankfurt you are typically grade separated unless you are on a branch which become increasingly tram like as service frequency goes down)
- Infrastructure Design
- The fact that Frankfurt has both an U-Bahn (Similar to the traditional high floor LRT in Edmonton - a Subway style system), Trams (Similar to the Valley Line, but also lots to learn here), and of course lots of regional and suburban trains

A good example of where a lot of learning could happen is looking at the U5-25 and U5-KR trains, which allow Frankfurt to connect up multiple LRVs (think the trains on the Capital and Metro Line) into longer walkthrough trains (like you will see in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal), there isn't a good reason Edmonton shouldn't try to go for a design like this for future vehicles (its also a good reminder that the idea that high floor LRT vehicles are no longer built or obsolete is ridiculous):
View attachment 558147
View attachment 558148
View attachment 558149

Here's a map of the system:
View attachment 558144
Click to expand...
RM Transit is on Skyrise Edmonton!!!
 
Reecemartin said:
I've been active here for years, and forums for other Canadian cities!
Click to expand...

One more Reece Martin fan appreciation post:

Love the channel Reece! I’ve learned a ton from it. Entertaining and informative. Appreciated the recent video on Alberta too!

I hope as well that we get an airport rail link. The current plan proposes a direct link to downtown along the existing rail corridor running just east of Gateway Boulevard. (The old plan was to extend the Capital Line.):


IMG_6747.jpeg



I hope that whatever tunnel/bridge they construct for the airport connection to get downtown will also be used for future intercity rail travel to Calgary.
 
Reecemartin said:
Since this is the "LRT Expansion Planning" thread, I really recommend people go look in detail at a system like the Frankfurt U-Bahn, I will have a video on it soonish, but it uses the exact same standards and compatible vehicles to both Edmonton and Calgary (including the U2 back in the day), but the design of the network and infrastructure is totally different (they have 3 subway tunnels downtown criss crossing).

The things I would suggest are worth thinking about:

- Network Topology
- Grade Separation and ROW design (in Frankfurt you are typically grade separated unless you are on a branch which become increasingly tram like as service frequency goes down)
- Infrastructure Design
- The fact that Frankfurt has both an U-Bahn (Similar to the traditional high floor LRT in Edmonton - a Subway style system), Trams (Similar to the Valley Line, but also lots to learn here), and of course lots of regional and suburban trains

A good example of where a lot of learning could happen is looking at the U5-25 and U5-KR trains, which allow Frankfurt to connect up multiple LRVs (think the trains on the Capital and Metro Line) into longer walkthrough trains (like you will see in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal), there isn't a good reason Edmonton shouldn't try to go for a design like this for future vehicles (its also a good reminder that the idea that high floor LRT vehicles are no longer built or obsolete is ridiculous):
View attachment 558147
View attachment 558148
View attachment 558149

Here's a map of the system:
View attachment 558144
Click to expand...

Hey Reece, nice to see you on the Edmonton forum again 😁

I honestly didn't know that walk-through LRT trains were a thing, but that's actually so cool and I wish we could get those here for our system!
 
Only problem with a walk-through LRT train would be those passengers who need to sit down, such as seniors, disabled, pregnant women, etc. Am I right, or am I out to lunch?
 
Gronk! said:
Only problem with a walk-through LRT train would be those passengers who need to sit down, such as seniors, disabled, pregnant women, etc. Am I right, or am I out to lunch?
Click to expand...
I think you're misunderstanding, Gronk. Walk through means that you can walk from the very front of the train to the very back, through all 5 cars. The seating arrangement in the individual cars is essentially irrelevant.
 
Gronk! said:
Only problem with a walk-through LRT train would be those passengers who need to sit down, such as seniors, disabled, pregnant women, etc. Am I right, or am I out to lunch?
Click to expand...

A "walk-through" is simply a train where every carriage is connected into one long space instead of being separated into "cars". There is usually seating in these trains and they can be more accessible, since people can find seating across the entire train as opposed to just the carriage they're in :cool:
 
Last edited:
One thing I noticed and realized when I was visiting Calgary this last Friday. On their blue line that goes from downtown to Saddletowne on the NE side, one of the reasons why their C-Train draws great numbers in ridership is that the stretch from Marlborough station to Whitehorn is surrounded by retail and residential. Also it has one hospital right next to the C-Train alignment. There are tons of people getting on and off the trains in that area because it appears to be convenient, oh and the LRT is very fast along that stretch. If I were to compare that section to a road in Edmonton, I would say it would be 97st north of Yellowhead. If Edmonton ran a high floor line branching from Blatchford up 97st to the northern edge of the city, I believe that we'd see a massive increase in LRT usage .
 
Edmcowboy11 said:
One thing I noticed and realized when I was visiting Calgary this last Friday. On their blue line that goes from downtown to Saddletowne on the NE side, one of the reasons why their C-Train draws great numbers in ridership is that the stretch from Marlborough station to Whitehorn is surrounded by retail and residential. Also it has one hospital right next to the C-Train alignment. There are tons of people getting on and off the trains in that area because it appears to be convenient, oh and the LRT is very fast along that stretch. If I were to compare that section to a road in Edmonton, I would say it would be 97st north of Yellowhead. If Edmonton ran a high floor line branching from Blatchford up 97st to the northern edge of the city, I believe that we'd see a massive increase in LRT usage .
Click to expand...

Not LRT, but there are plans for BRT running on 97th St. (See the map I posted above.)

Should hopefully be funded in the 2027-2030 budget and running this decade.
 
Edmcowboy11 said:
One thing I noticed and realized when I was visiting Calgary this last Friday. On their blue line that goes from downtown to Saddletowne on the NE side, one of the reasons why their C-Train draws great numbers in ridership is that the stretch from Marlborough station to Whitehorn is surrounded by retail and residential. Also it has one hospital right next to the C-Train alignment. There are tons of people getting on and off the trains in that area because it appears to be convenient, oh and the LRT is very fast along that stretch. If I were to compare that section to a road in Edmonton, I would say it would be 97st north of Yellowhead. If Edmonton ran a high floor line branching from Blatchford up 97st to the northern edge of the city, I believe that we'd see a massive increase in LRT usage .
Click to expand...
I always thought this was the place to run the LRT and I say that as someone who grew up a stone's throw from the future Castle Downs stop.

When you want to build high capacity transit, look to where the buses are already running and build there (in this case, 97th St.).

But that debate is over and I don't see the city building two bridges when we can't get one funded (yet)
 
I also think elevated down 97 St is the way to go. Nothing's built yet, re-rendering is easy. You capture Northgate and the denser part of Griesbach, it can shape the redevelopment of the north end of Griesbach, then curve left to Castle Downs.

It's too bad Eaux Claires is so close yet so far but it's worth considering relocating that transit centre.
 
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