LRT Expansion Planning

[Kaizen]

I would love to see the extension of the Metro Line proceed first, in part because I'd love to see that impressive bridge built over the CN Railyards & thus completion of our first regional line. This would be a big boost for Blatchford's TOD fulfilment.
Both extensions are super important, the Global article had some valid points.

 

[Platinum107]

You know what, I'm actually torn on this issue ☹. Both projects have an almost equal level of benefits and/or advantages. I guess I'd personally like to see Metro Line NW first, mainly due to the benefit of better connecting the north side, encouraging redevelopment and transit-oriented development, and linking St. Albert into the system (I know St. Albert won't get LRT within their borders for a long while yet, but having the mass transit connection right across the Henday will have huge benefits for the city.)

Also, the Walker Bridge is going to be a spectacle in of itself

 

[_Citizen_Dane_]

You know what, I'm actually torn on this issue ☹. Both projects have an almost equal level of benefits and/or advantages. I guess I'd personally like to see Metro Line NW first, mainly due to the benefit of better connecting the north side, encouraging redevelopment and transit-oriented development, and linking St. Albert into the system (I know St. Albert won't get LRT within their borders for a long while yet, but having the mass transit connection right across the Henday will have huge benefits for the city.)

Also, the Walker Bridge is going to be a spectacle in of itself

Agreed on all points. I keep seeing people say "while the south side's growing quicker, so we would focus there" and while that's true and I can agree with the sentiment to a degree, I hate that that seemingly comes at the expense of better transit in northwest Edmonton. For the last decade-and-a-half now the south's continually seen LRT upgrades and expansions, while one whole quadrant of the city has seen zero. The whole northwest is a transit dead zone and delaying an expansion into it will only continue to make things worse. If you live anywhere in the 127th Street corridor you literally have one bus, the 12, to get you downtown — or Kingsway ninety percent of the time as downtown travel is only available at peak hours — which is a slow meandering route that cuts through Rosslyn, Wellington, Dunvegan, and Athlone, that can take upwards of forty-five minutes, where in a car you could get there more directly in what, ten or fifteen? This time next year (hopefully), south Edmonton will have two whole LRT lines, largely accessible for anyone on that side of the city. The north will have one, located, for the most part, in the far flung eastern edge of the city, accessible to a far smaller population.

Maybe it means a lot to me because I lived 20 years of my nearly 23 year old life there, but for all the talk of trying to make Edmonton grow up, become more urban and dense, incentivize transit and a shift away from the private car, this would archive none of that. A direct connection downtown is one of the things that holds back a whole section of Edmonton and probably disincentives people from moving there. I think it will, and possibly has already, created an endless loop where the south side will always be more desirable and will always receive more love from council.

 

[archited]

I can remember shortly after I moved to L.A. going from the south end of the City to a project that I was working on in the San Fernando valley (not the most northerly point, but north of the Santa Monica mountains) it took me 3 1/2 hours -- one way -- of travel time by bus (me car was in the shop, aaargh). More recently a subway/LRT line has been built under the mountains so I rode that one day to make the comparison -- 1/2 hour end to end ? but it set me back $42.00 in two-way fare (me lunch money, aaargh). I grew up in Edmonton slightly east of the north-south central axis (11944 91st Street -- Delton -- to be precise) -- at that time the CN tracks (aligned with the switch yards) was essentially the northern boundary of the City. I am thinking that if I lived there now and I wanted to get downtown by transit I would walk two blocks south to Alberta Avenue and capture a bus going east to the Coliseum LRT station or, alternatively, west to a NAIT connection and then end up at the Churchill station -- a five minute walk, a (potential) 15 minute wait for the Route 8 bus, a 10-minute bus ride in either direction, another potential 15 minute wait (including walk time) for LRT connection and then a 10-minute ride downtown -- max time elapsed = 55 minutes (but if my connections were synced and on time then possibly as little as 30 minutes. If, when downtown, I wanted to go to the Mac for a slurpee I would add on another five minutes. Not bad considering that I could use about half of that time working on my laptop. But, after doing that trip 301 times I think that I would just move downtown -- I am thinking either the new Regency project on the BoM site, the Alldritt legacy project on the northside river valley rim at Jasper Ave. between 96th and 97th street, or, nearby, the project north-adjacent to the Mac. In all three instances I would enjoy the hotel connection for meals delivered to my door -- and I could connect sub-terra to the library, art gallery, RAM, Winspear, City Hall, Citadel, Fed Building, Ice District, myriad restaurants, shopping... and I wouldn't have to mow the lawn! There are two categorical groups to whom the latter scenario seems to have broad appeal -- empty-nester baby-boomers and Millenials-post. The pendulum is swinging in favor of central core lifestyles where transit isn't even a consideration.

 

[Platinum107]

I think that in the end, phase one of the south extension is going to make more sense, mainly because the system is in desperate need of a new OMF to store new LRVs, and also the fact that the 700 Million dollars left from the 2.9 Billion investment can fully fund the 600 Mil extension, so they wouldn't have to request more funding for this specific project and could have shovels in the ground as soon as next year. RIGHT AFTER THIS THOUGH, get to the Metro line pls ?

 

[Airboy]

The new park and ride on the north end is going great. the facility is being built with the LRT in Mind. the alignment of the buildings are set up for that. I just wished they would do this line before I am dead.

 

[Foolworm]

If the Northwest thinks it got snubbed, imagine Strathcona with the Centre LRT not mentioned at all.

As it is, the ask to the Provincial government is for the Capital Line South and it makes sense - it crosses AHD (a provincial highway) and will eventually service the hospital / health campus (on provincial land). Compare that to Metro Line Northwest - it crosses the Walker yard (a CN asset) and eventually services the Campbell Road transit centre (a St. Albert facility). Which is more likely to get provincial dollars then?

and also the fact that the 700 Million dollars left from the 2.9 Billion investment can fully fund the 600 Mil extension

That was the original 2016 estimate...

 

[archited]

...if St Albert makes enough noise -- scratch that -- they probably would rather eradicate their "bedroom community" sensibility; maybe they would rather build a wall between their burg and the Big E.

 

[archited]

imagine Strathcona with the Centre LRT not mentioned at all

I thought that particular line was nixed entirely by the City transit planners once they found out that the High Level Bridge was not a safe passage route without having to spend inordinate sums to make it less so. Again, lets make the ERRS system run from the soon-to-be re-birthed Bonnie Doon to the UofA along Whyte -- in keeping with the history and arguably a funner ? ride.

 

[Platinum107]

@Foolworm That does make sense if they do need more money than estimated to complete it. Also, I would hope that while Capital Line South is being built, the city would continue to pave the way and make all the agreements needed for the Metro Line, including figuring out the CN Walker Yard Bridge issue and getting funding from higher levels of government, so when the time comes to have shovels in the ground they can do it.

 

[Daveography]

...if St Albert makes enough noise -- scratch that -- they probably would rather eradicate their "bedroom community" sensibility; maybe they would rather build a wall between their burg and the Big E.

That was the case once upon a time, but they are a much more cooperative regional player these days.

 

[Daveography]

I thought that particular line was nixed entirely by the City transit planners once they found out that the High Level Bridge was not a safe passage route without having to spend inordinate sums to make it less so. Again, lets make the ERRS system run from the soon-to-be re-birthed Bonnie Doon to the UofA along Whyte -- in keeping with the history and arguably a funner ? ride.

Not sure if it has been nixed entirely yet, but the city is exploring other options that would provide the same or similar outcomes. Not sure what that means or entails just yet.

 

[danimori]

I think their modelling suggests that the predicted ridership for centre LRT does not justify the investment, so BRT is preferred. However, I really hope they still do the centre LRT to allow for more LRT route options without transfers (i.e. from millwoods to university area/ Millwoods to university then to west edmonton). HERE IS HOPING.

 

[_Citizen_Dane_]

Even if a direct downtown connection via the High Level or D.B. Menzies or a new bridge is an impossibility I'd still like to see a line down Whyte one day. It might not be the best idea out there, but I mean, what's to stop it from even being something like a spur of the Valley Line that comes to a European styled tram loop at the quad in front of the University's old Normal School/ Corbett Hall? Something that simple (relatively) would provide an east/westbound connection in south Edmonton along a major commercial corridor, while still being within extremely close walking distance to another station to get you downtown if needed.

 

[Platinum107]

Okay so, here's what I think about the Central LRT:

I personally don't want to see an at-grade connection going down Whyte Ave for a few reasons, mainly because of the traffic disruption and logistics issues it would create in the area. Last I checked, the newest idea is to move the alignment to 76th avenue, but I think that would also be a mistake because it's slightly too far from where it'll be most useful. So yeah, there definitely is no perfect solution to this problem, and if you asked what I personally want, an underground alignment under the main portion of Whyte, which would then emerge and climb up near the Mill Creek bridge and THEN go street level would make the most sense (in every area but cost of course). However, broadening the scope from just LRT is where, I believe, the best solution can be found in the STREETCAR ?! Having the ERRS (subsidized by the city) serve that corridor just has sooo many benefits in my mind as well as your guy's I'm sure, from the cost to the functionality to the massive sense of novelty and tourism boost It'll create. The closest-to-perfect solution if you asked me.

Moving back to the LRT for a sec, I think that the best solution to the river crossing could be highly reinforcing D. B. Menzies Bridge and adding a second train deck ON TOP of the original one. What do you guys think??