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LRT Expansion Planning

cloney said:
Not sure if this is the place for this but was just having some hypothetical thoughts on Future LRT routes. Its a route I drive down quite often, but having an LRT route from the royal alex station, down kingsway ave, 118 ave, and then north on st albert trail to end at where the new terminal station is planned for by Campbell road. I have included a beautiful hand drawn image to help show this. Future metro line in orange and this hypothetical line in dark green. Would love to hear any reasons why you think this would or wouldnt work! kingsway ave with 3 lanes in each direction just seem like so much, and with blatchford being developed, adding lrt/bike lanes to kingsway ave to help there be less of a divide between blatchford and the bordering neighborhoods seems reasonable. Same goes for st albert trail, these seem like semi-major routes in the city that could benefit from being accessible to more than just cars. View attachment 357051
Click to expand...

As different as the routes are, this line would mostly overlap with the catchment zone for the Metro Line. Right now, I'd say an extension east, to Sherwood Park, so we could finally have all of the quadrants linked to the network, is more pressing and makes more sense. A central line that links Whyte Ave to the network is also far more important.
As someone pointed out, I can see a semi express bus line making this route you traced, maybe even with dedicated bus lanes, together with a protected bike lane.
 
ChazYEG said:
Not a really good idea, at least from a cost-efficiency perspective. They're doing it in Melbourne, if I'm not mistaken, and it will cost tens of billions, with low expected ridership and the project will almost certainly be scrapped and only the current leg will be built.

Considering that Melbourne has 2x Edmonton Metro's population, is denser and the line is an arch, not a full circle, I'd wager that having all of the lines cross/meet the Henday and have express bus services linking them would be cheaper and more viable. Imagine having Lewis Farms, Campbell Rd, Gorman, Heritage Valley and Millwoods (plus a future Energy line stop on the east end) connected by direct, express busses.
We could have this same service from Century Park, Clareview and WEM as well.

We can even think of double-decker like GO uses in the GTA, as these would be strictly suburban lines, with more focus on comfort and capacity than frequency. We could have one "line" going in each direction, headways of 15 minutes (10min and peak hours), with either articulated or double-decker busses. Because the Anthony Henday will, more likely than not, be expanded, if demand is ever there to justify it, we can even make one of the lanes exclusive for busses in peak hours (7 to 9:30 and 3:30 to 7).
Click to expand...
Melbourne is over 5 million people, with far more density in many areas and has a centralized CBD along with a significant amount of tourist travel.
 
ChazYEG said:
As different as the routes are, this line would mostly overlap with the catchment zone for the Metro Line. Right now, I'd say an extension east, to Sherwood Park, so we could finally have all of the quadrants linked to the network, is more pressing and makes more sense. A central line that links Whyte Ave to the network is also far more important.
As someone pointed out, I can see a semi express bus line making this route you traced, maybe even with dedicated bus lanes, together with a protected bike lane.
Click to expand...
Whyte Ave desperately needs dedicated bus lanes. Although the bus frequencies are amazing, traffic is terrible on that street and the buses are so slow.
 
IanO said:
Melbourne is over 5 million people, with far more density in many areas and has a centralized CBD along with a significant amount of tourist travel.
Click to expand...
Exactly my point. Melbourne is A LOT bigger, with much more money to spend and, yet, a ring railroad is failing to be successful and worth the money.

If it doesn't work for Melbourne, even with it being much more comparable to Toronto than Edmonton, I can't see it working here.
 
occidentalcapital said:
Tokyo-esque - build up nodes all linked by transit. You could get a major high-density node at windermere, West Edmonton Mall, industrial access on the east end, and allow connections with all existing LRT lines that cross the Henday.
Click to expand...
It's way too low in density to support a train. But BRT on the Henday would certainly work. In terms of a circle line, I still prefer a rail alignment bypassing downtown and Jasper place to connect 87 Avenue and Whyte Ave across the river.
 
ChazYEG said:
As different as the routes are, this line would mostly overlap with the catchment zone for the Metro Line. Right now, I'd say an extension east, to Sherwood Park, so we could finally have all of the quadrants linked to the network, is more pressing and makes more sense. A central line that links Whyte Ave to the network is also far more important.
As someone pointed out, I can see a semi express bus line making this route you traced, maybe even with dedicated bus lanes, together with a protected bike lane.
Click to expand...
Well I long for the day where Edmonton would have enough density to support lines this close together, and i guess at the same time, have enough lrt lines across the city that we can focus on 2 lines closer together like this.
 
so far most of the LRT routes all have the function of going from the edge of the city to downtown, but nothing for connecting neighborhoods in other directions. i wonder at what point (if ever) we will have lrt that doesnt just go from the edge of the city to downtown
 
cloney said:
so far most of the LRT routes all have the function of going from the edge of the city to downtown, but nothing for connecting neighborhoods in other directions. i wonder at what point (if ever) we will have lrt that doesnt just go from the edge of the city to downtown
Click to expand...
I think the Valley Line is a step towards that, with its slower speed and denser stops compared to the high floor lines.
 
cloney said:
so far most of the LRT routes all have the function of going from the edge of the city to downtown, but nothing for connecting neighborhoods in other directions. i wonder at what point (if ever) we will have lrt that doesnt just go from the edge of the city to downtown
Click to expand...
I frankly don't see this happening here in Edmonton ever or, at least, for another century (no exaggeration). I can see maybe well structured, albeit smaller scale, BRT lines doing it, even today, but maybe (and that's a very strong maybe) with the exception of the south and SW, with nodes in Millwoods, Century Park and Windermere, for example, I don't see Edmonton ever getting dense enough outside of the core to justify LRT lines connecting neighborhoods without coming to the central areas.

cloney said:
Well I long for the day where Edmonton would have enough density to support lines this close together, and i guess at the same time, have enough lrt lines across the city that we can focus on 2 lines closer together like this.
Click to expand...

I would love that too, but I dare say that we'd need to see AT LEAST Old Strathcona/Garneau levels of density throughout most of the city to even consider this, unless there is a RADICAL change in the car-centric culture, that I just don't see happening, sadly. Doing some paperback algebra, here, It would mean that we'd need to have 2.5 to 3x the current population without growing the current footprint or, more realistically, approach 4 million with a 50% urban footprint increase, more or less. I don't think we'll ever see the city proper get to these levels of density. I can imagine maybe some more overlap between old and new lines in the central areas mostly Downtown and around Whyte Ave/U of A, with a higher stop density in these areas, in a way that you're never more than 1 or 2 blocks from a LRT stop or station entrance in the core and around the U of A, for example.
 
Grandinite said:
I think what he's asking is how long until we can go from say Mill Woods Town Centre to Century Park without going through downtown first for example
Click to expand...
Oh I see, I misinterpreted that. It's a good question for sure, and I hadn't thought about our LRT's expansion in thise terms before. It's something interesting to ponder!
 
I think a crosstown LRT line would be nice, but it could be a lower priority than expansion to suburban locations. The Broadway extension in Vancouver is a key connection (bypassing downtown) with three lines even if it’s a short one. Edmonton is still a few decades away.
 
Crosstown BRT from transit nodes would be nice. West ed to windermere. West ed to Uni over New 87ave Bridge, West ed to Southgate. West ed to mill millbourne. If these were in dedicated lanes, I could see them being pretty efficient.

Have like 1 or 2 stops inbetween the main nodes. Run 10min frequencies.

I use the BRT on Broadway that is becoming the new train in Vancouver for work all the time. Its helpful as a stop right outside of a skytrain station.
 
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