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Keep 102 Ave closed to vehicles

bingo said:
i never understand these comparisons, we aren't paris, we are a humble prairie city lol. i think its super unproductive when urbanists make comparisons to 500+ year old European metropolises to our relatively new NA cities .
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The thing is that you can find cities that are more akin to old European ones in other places in the Americas. Go walk cities like Santiago, Lima, Cartagena, Mexico City, Rio, São Paulo (and pretty much any other large city in Latin America), for example. While they have a host of other issues, they are proof that we can do better!
 
ChazYEG said:
The thing is that you can find cities that are more akin to old European ones in other places in the Americas. Go walk cities like Santiago, Lima, Cartagena, Mexico City, Rio, São Paulo (and pretty much any other large city in Latin America), for example. While they have a host of other issues, they are proof that we can do better!
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ok i understand where ur coming from but those are like MEGACITIES too. Probably only comparable to places like NYC, Toronto etc. They are also super old too. It's better to compare to like a 3rd or 4th rate city in South America. But mostly to other places on our continent!
 
bingo said:
ok i understand where ur coming from but those are like MEGACITIES too. Probably only comparable to places like NYC, Toronto etc. They are also super old too. It's better to compare to like a 3rd or 4th rate city in South America. But mostly to other places on our continent!
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Okay, so look at Guadalajara, Rosario, Curitiba, Recife, Cartagena (not a megacity, it's smaller than Edmonton, actually), Campinas, Montevideo, Barranquilla... All of these are significantly more vibrant than any city 2x their size in North America. And I'm not even mentioning unknown cities between 500k-1M people in these countries (my hometown is one example) which is immensely more vibrant and has a better urban experience than most cities in North America the same size or even bigger.

Some of these cities are just as young or younger than Edmonton, for example. They're just proof that we can do better, in general, in North America.

Also, for context, America is a single continent with 3 different geographic regions (North, Central and South America) =D
 
bingo said:
i never understand these comparisons, we aren't paris, we are a humble prairie city lol. i think its super unproductive when urbanists make comparisons to 500+ year old European metropolises to our relatively new NA cities .
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Exactly. If we close this street, a bunch of beautiful 19th century European buildings are not going to magically pop up with fruit vendors or whatever in front of them.

These random pictures of places that have absolutely no similarity to here are so totally unrealistic and have no context or relationship to the history, culture, climate and location of our city.

They actually undermine the point trying to be made, not support it.
 
ChazYEG said:
Okay, so look at Guadalajara, Rosario, Curitiba, Recife, Cartagena (not a megacity, it's smaller than Edmonton, actually), Campinas, Montevideo, Barranquilla... All of these are significantly more vibrant than any city 2x their size in North America. And I'm not even mentioning unknown cities between 500k-1M people in these countries (my hometown is one example) which is immensely more vibrant and has a better urban experience than most cities in North America the same size or even bigger.

Some of these cities are just as young or younger than Edmonton, for example. They're just proof that we can do better, in general, in North America.

Also, for context, America is a single continent with 3 different geographic regions (North, Central and South America) =D
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yup now this is much more reasonable but also I've only ever heard of people from south America say that America is one continent but that idea is so unpopular in North America. why?
 
bingo said:
yup now this is much more reasonable but also I've only ever heard of people from south America say that America is one continent but that idea is so unpopular in North America. why?
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In general, because North Americans (mostly from Canada and the US) are fairly uneducated in geography and like having the distinction due to being developed countries, whereas the rest of the continent isn't. It's not uncommon to hear Mexico being traded as part of another geographic region, for example. Or things being split between North America and Latin America (the most inaccurate of the divisions).

As for the cities, there are countless examples of "small" big cities, between 1 and 3M people in Latin America that we could look to for inspiration,
 
Holy crap folks.

I show an urban environment that we all want to aspire to and bar to uphold and it's knives out?

My entire point is that 102 Ave is SOOOO far from a walkable, urban, vibrant environment that IF we want to send it in that direction it will need major reform, but imparting an ideological direction as as overly ain't going to magically transform it.
 
Plain and simple. If 102 had a lineup of businesses down the avenue like Whyte ave, or 124st or Stephen Ave in Calgary the closing of the ave would make sense. As it stands there is probably less than half a dozen.
 
bingo said:
i never understand these comparisons, we aren't paris, we are a humble prairie city lol. i think its super unproductive when urbanists make comparisons to 500+ year old European metropolises to our relatively new NA cities .
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"We can't have good urbanism, we're not London or Paris or Amsterdam!"
*Continues to do absolutely none of the work that London or Paris or Amsterdam have done to build or promote good urbanism*

fd10fe9d16096ab6f684463170b860a9b1e6e2a5.gif


Not to dogpile on your comment, I think you're taking the feedback in stride, but it's such a dangerous line of thinking: That because we are what we are now, that we can never learn from past mistakes or successes, and never improve or aspire to be more or do better.

At some point we also have to realize that good urbanism isn't just some ideological elitist espresso-sipper's fantasy utopia, but a critical path to sustainability - environmental, economic, and even social.
 
TAS said:
I'm not even sure why this discussion was restarted. Council voted to reopen 102 Ave to its one lane of traffic and nobody has advocated since that we should reverse that.
Nothing has changed has it?
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Untrue, there is still movement on revising this, but because of the way bylaw motions work at Council, it has to wait at least a year before it can come back for consideration. In the meantime, there's additional studies and data being collected to strengthen the argument for closing it to vehicles again. (There were also some shenanigans from Admin that basically put a thumb on the scale, but I can't remember the details right now; Speaking Municipally talked about it on their podcast episode after the decision was made.)
 
Edmcowboy11 said:
Plain and simple. If 102 had a lineup of businesses down the avenue like Whyte ave, or 124st or Stephen Ave in Calgary the closing of the ave would make sense. As it stands there is probably less than half a dozen.
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The potential exists to open it up to more businesses (i.e., the entire length of ECC, Manulife, even the Toll building with a bit of work, and of course whatever gets built on the former BMO site). I'm not saying it would be easy or that these property owners could even afford to do it right now, but there's also little incentive for them to do so now or in the future given how little vehicle traffic uses this section of roadway, and the fact that there's zero on-street parking available anyway.
 
I would love it if this idea started with closing the stretch between the library and City Hall. I believe that would be the quickest win with the least impact.
 
Edmcowboy11 said:
Plain and simple. If 102 had a lineup of businesses down the avenue like Whyte ave, or 124st or Stephen Ave in Calgary the closing of the ave would make sense. As it stands there is probably less than half a dozen.
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Maybe I am wrong and if so, someone please correct me, but I can't think of even a half a dozen street front facing retail stores currently in this area. I think its actually closer to zero.
 
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