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Jasper Avenue New Vision / Imagine Jasper Avenue

Barnaby said:
You don't want a neighbourhood full of exclusively one socioeconomic group, ever.

There is plenty of room in central Edmonton for everyone, and talking about moving groups of people around like cattle isn't productive at all. If there's going to be any kind of displacement, it should be across a large area of the city, based on personal choice as much as possible.
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Unfortunately, displacement has been most of our approach to "improving" things in the past.
EAM-311 Boyle Street.jpeg
 
The city planning map of Boyle looks like something from 1946 but it serves to show how geographically small and how difficult it would be for a small business to locate and thrive in Boyle. Go down the City's "1946" zoning list and it's only the services in red that have survived in Boyle. The rest in orange have largely gone the way of the dodo bird because of pressure from high volume, low margin retailors that service a wide audience. So asking a "10 block by 10 block" area of low income constituents to support small businesses in the vicinity so that they thrive is not going to work and everybody except the city can see that.

Upscale live / work complexes for one office professionals could work in Boyle because of its proximity to downtown Jasper Avenue, the river valley, and entertainment. Again though, the City seems committed to an outdated "1946" urban plan in Boyle that evidence shows has gone away and one that doesn't work in 2024 either.
 
Out of Towner said:
The city planning map of Boyle looks like something from 1946 but it serves to show how geographically small and how difficult it would be for a small business to locate and thrive in Boyle. Go down the City's "1946" zoning list and it's only the services in red that have survived in Boyle. The rest in orange have largely gone the way of the dodo bird because of pressure from high volume, low margin retailors that service a wide audience. So asking a "10 block by 10 block" area of low income constituents to support small businesses in the vicinity so that they thrive is not going to work and everybody except the city can see that.

Upscale live / work complexes for one office professionals could work in Boyle because of its proximity to downtown Jasper Avenue, the river valley, and entertainment. Again though, the City seems committed to an outdated "1946" urban plan in Boyle that evidence shows has gone away and one that doesn't work in 2024 either.
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I assume most or all the small uncoloured boxes in the north and eastern part are houses or small residential buildings. It seems to me the main problem here is not so much who lives there but density.

Now I suspect there are even fewer of those old residential (and commercial) buildings and even more empty lots or parking lots. Of course back in the 1940's the city was much smaller and there were no suburban malls, so some of those orange businesses would have served not just the nearby even then insufficient nearby residential area, but people coming downtown from elsewhere.
 
David A said:
I assume most or all the small uncoloured boxes in the north and eastern part are houses or small residential buildings. It seems to me the main problem here is not so much who lives there but density.

Now I suspect there are even fewer of those old residential (and commercial) buildings and even more empty lots or parking lots. Of course back in the 1940's the city was much smaller and there were no suburban malls, so some of those orange businesses would have served not just the nearby even then insufficient nearby residential area, but people coming downtown from elsewhere.
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I believe that is correct. The Boyle trading area was larger in years past and shrank as more competitive retailing models evolved over time and people moved to suburbs. The only thing remaining today is the area's spit and vinegar reputation and I believe that it's an impediment to development of the area.

However, if the area was marketed properly it's actually in a very strategic location in the city and could attract a self employed young professional demographic. It's an ideal location for upscale live / work buildings for young lawyers or accountants wishing to start their own practice. A downtown location for a professional practice gives it more legitimacy than one in a strip mall in the boonies and the consolidation of living and working at the same location is economically advantageous.

The City's bohemian village vision for Boyle is nonsense. Nobody is going to drive to Boyle because a new store opens and even if low income housing is built in the area, there still wouldn't be enough density to support any stores.

At least with a upscale area there's a better chance of bringing people downtown.
 
Out of Towner said:
The city planning map of Boyle looks like something from 1946 but it serves to show how geographically small and how difficult it would be for a small business to locate and thrive in Boyle. Go down the City's "1946" zoning list and it's only the services in red that have survived in Boyle. The rest in orange have largely gone the way of the dodo bird because of pressure from high volume, low margin retailors that service a wide audience. So asking a "10 block by 10 block" area of low income constituents to support small businesses in the vicinity so that they thrive is not going to work and everybody except the city can see that.

Upscale live / work complexes for one office professionals could work in Boyle because of its proximity to downtown Jasper Avenue, the river valley, and entertainment. Again though, the City seems committed to an outdated "1946" urban plan in Boyle that evidence shows has gone away and one that doesn't work in 2024 either.
Click to expand...
The planning map I shared is from the 1960s, and was a precursor to the clearance of Chinatown. The coloured spaces were seen as blight, because in "excessive" concentrations they supposedly attracted ne'erdowells and poverty, especially the cluster around 97th and Jasper and the city was largely concerned with making this go away, or at least thinning it down.
 
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Thanks for sharing the map. I might be the only one who believes that the area holds promise as an upscale area for development given its proximity to all the high profile new development downtown. Some effective marketing is really the only thing the area lacks. There are few, if any, streets in the city that have the appeal of 96th but throw the word Boyle into the mix and there's an immediate perception problem but it's far from an insurmountable challenge. Change the name of the area to something modern, increase the police presence for a period of time to discourage crime, offer a tax break to the area's first developers, and there's no reason why the area can't get off the ground. The absence of any meaningful development in the area has demonstrated that an economic argument for affordable housing and flea market style businesses hasn't worked and clinging to an outdated concept doesn't help anybody.
 
I agree perceptions are a big part of the problem. This area has been viewed negatively for decades so for most Edmontonians it is a no go area.

So it may take a developer from somewhere else, not burdened with these preconceptions, to get things moving here. A tax break for a period of limited period of time could be helpful.

A name change at some point may help too, but perhaps that comes after things start to change and move ahead. Otherwise it may just be quickly dismissed especially by long time locals.
 
^
???
It wouldn’t surprise me if local developers (I will include Calgary in that) haven’t invested close to $100 million dollars in the Quarters and likely a great deal more than that if you include Boyle Renaissance.

It’s not local developers who have been missing from the equation.
 
I do not consider Calgary local. I do realize there are some local and other developers who have invested in the area, but not a lot compared to elsewhere in the city.

I actually hope I am wrong and more will step up.
 
^
I included Calgary so as to encompass Cidex’s Hat at the five corners intersection and their acquisition and cleanup of the Mirama site.
 
There is a really interesting report going to Executive Committee in 10 days, planning to close vehicular traffic to several properties from Jasper Ave.

The goal is to reduce the number of cars crossing the sidewalk on Jasper. What I find really inspiring is that all but one of the property owners has agreed to the access closure.
 
BrettB said:
There is a really interesting report going to Executive Committee in 10 days, planning to close vehicular traffic to several properties from Jasper Ave.

The goal is to reduce the number of cars crossing the sidewalk on Jasper. What I find really inspiring is that all but one of the property owners has agreed to the access closure.
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Nice, Will get rid of the fear of having a car butt out onto the sidewalk out of nowhere without looking.
 
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