IanO
Superstar
Thank you.
We are playing catch up and are very much behind in terms of projects, design, materials and integration.
We are playing catch up and are very much behind in terms of projects, design, materials and integration.
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General Infill Discussion
- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
EtoV
Active Member
I live in Vancouver currently lol, within the Cambie corridor actually. Cambie corridor, the new rental 100 program that allows 4-6 stories off main roads, and the new broadway plan will do a lot, but in terms of the entire metro region, Vancouver still isn't doing nearly enough in terms of missing middle housing (especially when you consider the housing prices). Obviously Vancouver is seeing a lot of good projects, but it's not nearly enough when you consider that nearly all new housing in the region has to be infill due to the ALR.
I realize that it is a lot better than most Canadian cities, but the context means that missing middle along key arterials is the bare minimum the city needs to be doing.
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northlands
Senior Member
I seriously envy Van’s ability to build beautiful low rises. Does even half arsed architectural quality really blow up low rise pro formas here?
EtoV
Active Member
I don't think we can use the pro formas/housing costs as an excuse. Calgary is getting plenty of nice mid rises too. Not quite as nice as Vancouver, but they still seem to be far better on average than most buildings we're seeing in Edmonton.
occidentalcapital
Senior Member
No one wants to see their share of profit lost. Not the builders, construction workers, or contractors. So with a lower price point, the part that gets squeezed is the architecture. I think the solution is actually more competition. Ideally, you'd have so much supply being built that the ugly buildings just wouldn't lease up, and the problem solves itself.
archited
Senior Member
And nothing in Calgary or Vancouver compares to the mid-rise splendor of 8500 Burton Way in Los Angeles -- that said, what is the point? Edmonton has a better future than all of them!
8500burton.com
Gallery - 8500 Burton
Rising eight stories, this iconic, contemporary tower is designed with floor-to-ceiling glass, stone and smooth plaster facades and includes a rooftop pool/spa.
8500burton.com
David A
Senior Member
They also probably come with Vancouver prices, which no buyer envies.
David A
Senior Member
When I went to LA a few years ago, oddly it was the city that reminded me most of Edmonton's architecture of all the places I went to and not the best. However, there were also pockets of brilliance and I suspect many cities have that.And nothing in Calgary or Vancouver compares to the mid-rise splendor of 8500 Burton Way in Los Angeles -- that said, what is the point? Edmonton has a better future than all of them!
Gallery - 8500 Burton
Rising eight stories, this iconic, contemporary tower is designed with floor-to-ceiling glass, stone and smooth plaster facades and includes a rooftop pool/spa.
It is useful to show some nice pictures as a example of what can be better here, but I think it is over reaching to make sweeping generalizations about entire cities from them. The grass is always greener when you are visiting.
Glenco
Senior Member
Had a visitor from Georgia who was really impressed with the variety of architectural styles in the city not the sameness you find in a lot of places. Take it for what it is worth.
Seamusmuldrew
Active Member
I’d love if a developer took inspiration from this beauty in Jasper. I don’t think there’s much like this around since it’s sort of mountain-y but I think it’d fit into a mature, tree lined street really well
God
Active Member
I just wanna say as the person who pretty much started this debate. I didn’t say that Edmonton was doing missing middle nicer or better. I said it’s taking off compared to other cities. I stand by that. Especially with the new zoning bylaw. I don’t care about what has already happened. I’m not delusional. Vancouver will obviously have better midrise buildings. It’s a city without room to grow. It would need to grow upward which would mean developers have been building these types of buildings forever there. It’s like me looking at stantec tower and admiring how taller buildings can be built here and then you guys send me a bunch of pictures of Manhattan with the caption “ we’re still playing catch-up”. It’s like me talking about how bike lanes here are taking off and you guys sending pictures of Amsterdam telling me “we’re still playing catch up”.YOU ARE NOT WRONG. What you’re saying is just irrelevant unless you’re offering inspiration to what we could build. My original comment shouldn’t have been an invitation to debate what we haven’t done already but rather to talk about the things that have changed for the better that have opened opportunities to build these types of housing and the newly paved path to build more of these with the new zoning bylaw. Like it was said in chat before, Edmonton although has a shitty past definitely is heading towards a better future than the other cities. For anyone that wants to stand around and take every uninvited opportunity to be pessimistic. I don’t wanna hear anything else unless you shove it so for up yourself it has no way to go but out your damn mouth. If you feel insulted. Consult a Vancouverite.
God
Active Member
Thank you for posting something we don’t have in the city without rubbing in the fact that we don’t have it. As that would be ineffective and completely unproductive. You stayed on topic by sending a midrise we don’t have and offered an idea to how it could be incorporated into a neighbourhood and how it could/might fit in. Something like this would be a great addition to whatever community it could be added in and there’s plenty of central neighbourhoods begging for it. See ladies and gentlemen, you can still acknowledge other cities architecture in a productive way. It’s one thing to acknowledge better architecture as inspiration to build something better yourself and another to use it as a measurement of how far behind we are. Rather than telling people that we’re behind and how far behind we are. Instead offer solutions and ideas on how we can move forward. We understand we’re behind but Edmonton isn’t trying to be Vancouver or Toronto. So don’t compare. It won’t even come close. Instead take things you like in those cities and offer ideas on how Edmonton can be a better Edmonton rather than how Edmonton can be like Vancouver.
EtoV
Active Member
I was mainly responding to achiteds apologetics towards why Edmonton isn't seeing as much good infill as other Canadian cities. Regardless of sheer numbers, Calgary shows us we can have better design at similar price points. Yes Edmonton is taking some good steps, but if we can't admit that our standards just haven't been good enough, we can't make the steps needed to take advantage of the new zoning and make the City actually beautiful. In my mind, adding density that looks like crap is a good way to reverse any progress you've made, as it can cause communities to push back at what they see as blights on their neighbourhood, and sometimes rightly so. Density done wrong is not necessarily a net benefit to the city. If we want our infill policies to be successful, we need to demand better than the Gooch specials and Oliver Crossings. Maybe the answer is that we need a stronger Architectural Review Panel, or stronger Urban Design guidelines, or something else, but the City needs to seriously reflect on why so many cheap and flimsy looking buildings get built in this city.
thommyjo
Senior Member
I agree with you. It’s amazing to see Edmonton taking off in this area and starting to make big strides! Not trying to be a Debbie downer. I think it’s also important that we’re factually correct.
So when another post claimed that Vancouver wasnt actually doing a lot in the mid rise game, even though they’re building more midrises along one street than our entire inner city in a year, I think it’s important to present the facts.
We of course aren’t Vancouver, so I agree, we don’t need to always compare. But that’s also why we shouldn’t make claims like “it’s taking off COMPARED to other cities”. I think we just celebrate that we’re making really good progress. Like our zoning and secondary suite stuff, infill, etc….amazing. Definitely a leader in Canada in this. And excited for how it’ll lead to new projects in the coming decade. Let’s keep pushing for more and better while celebrating what we also have and want to have.
IanO
Superstar
Rents, expectations, experience with certain materials/design and neighbourhood influence.