Free Transit?

[Daveography]

Councillor Paquette will be filing a notice of motion to have Administration look into the pros/cons of making transit service free.

Interesting idea, and I support it. Increasing fares only hurt the people who struggle the most to pay them. And while I don't think it will create a huge shift in commuting patterns, I imagine it will at least help as it removes one more barrier to using transit.

Plus I imagine it will have economic benefits of opening up more of the city to casual riders who would struggle with the idea of paying $3.25 (or even $2.30 with a bus ticket) to make short shopping trips.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/lo...ncillor-asks-edmonton-to-examine-free-transit

 

[MichaelC]

I like that it will help the less-fortunate a lot.

 

[thommyjo]

Would love to revive this discussion a bit and hear what people think! Should we be considering free transit still?

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...lic-transport-is-free/photostory/88505403.cms

And some varieties of options: do we extend free transit to certain ages? Geographic zones? Time of day? Days of the week?

Free transit until 25 could increase student and school ridership.

Free transit after 65 could enable more elderly people to give up cars and have affordable ways to get around.

Free weekend transit could help with trips for shopping, entertainment, etc. Although this might not be as effective as weekday commute patterns being changed which could be easier due to consistency of time/trip route.

We could set a daily max. All fares are day fares. So $3 covers the whole day. That way people can trip chain. I know that's a huge barrier for a lot of people to use transit for things like hockey games, concerts, shopping or dinners out. 2+ people paying 2+ fares and suddenly you're over $15 and might as well drive somewhere free or pay 5-10 to park DT.

Thoughts?

 

[thommyjo]

I think we should just bite the bullet and do free transit. Revenue sources could include tolls, mileage tax, property taxes, advertising, developer fees for greenfield.

 

[danimori]

I think we should just bite the bullet and do free transit. Revenue sources could include tolls, mileage tax, property taxes, advertising, developer fees for greenfield.

Agree those could be hood solutions. Hopefully the province will allow cities to do stuff like toll roads and additional types of levies for greenfield development but I'm not holding my breath I think what the city is looking at with smartfare, where people pay for the distance between their destinations could be a good change.

 

[jason403]

I think it's a terrible idea. We simply can't afford it, and there isn't a need for it to be free. Many will disagree for a multitude of reasons that are probably sufficiently valid, but I stand behind my blunt opinion.

 

[CplKlinger]

Edmonton will have daily and monthly fare caps once Arc rolls out, and the other cities in the region (plus regional transit itself) will have monthly caps. So that's a step in the right direction. Speaking of which, Arc will give transit planners a lot of valuable data about usage, demographics, etc. I'm not saying this is more important than making transit free, but could there be any alternatives to this data collection if this actually happened?

 

[The_Cat]

Affordable transit, yes. Free transit that can be abused, no.

 

[ChazYEG]

100% free? Not viable, bot without an extra amount of taxation that will be heavily criticised and is, frankly, unnecessary.

While we might make it harder to develop new suburbs, via a myriad of ways, we'll never be able to move everyone out of the existing ones, no matter how far or close to the core.

Add this to our very slow response time to removing ice and snow from suburban streets and the extra cost of providing transit more frequently and with more capillarity that would be needed to serve these areas if we want to get people out of their cars (to avoid, let's say, mileage tax and tolls), and the social and financial costs will simply blow out of proportion and become unmanageable. You'll have a broke city and very unhappy population. Expect people leaving Edmonton, not moving closer to the core, unless they're somehow too tied in the city.

Mileage taxes and toll roads work for the Londons and New Yorks of the world, where there are literally hordes of people wanting to live. As much as I love Edmonton, it would never work here and would do much more harm than good.

I can see the extra cost on greenfield development working better, but hardly enough to cover the costs of free transit, considering that it would hardly be sustainable, unless we keep allowing more and more just to grab the cash.

I'd go for free transit in DT + Oliver + Okd Strathcona + Grandin (maybe Blatchford in the future) and reduced fares to enter in specific regions/stations (the ToDs, for example).
Also, I'd have the DT stations, as well as any of the bigger ones (Coliseum, South Gate and Century Park) filled with kiosks and shops, with low lease rates for the space and a stronger security. Think little Starbucks, Tim Hortons kiosks, as well as maybe quick clothing repair shops and things of the sorts. The kind of place people stop by in the morning, or that someone working might need in an "emergency". I've seen this kind of thing alone increase safety and ridership before (Rio and Brasilia).

 

[The_Cat]

I think that something like a two-hour validation on transit fares in a Central Area (Old Strathcona/University/Downtown/Oliver) might work for those without Arc cards.

This would long enough for lunch on Whyte, or performing errands downtown.

 

[thommyjo]

What is the daily cap for the new fare?

My wife and I are a 1 car family and avid bikers. But the #1 inhibitor to using transit is the cost. I wanted to get a membership at a gym too far to walk, but my wife needs the car often for work. So if I was to bus to the gym, it would cost $7 a day. If I go 3-4 times a week, that's ~$90 a month just to get to the gym. So instead, I drive every day before she heads to work.

These sorts of short trips will never be replaced at the current cost. They'll work for monthly pass users, but without a work commute to justify a monthly pass, ill never need to buy one. Same thing for festivals, games, concerts downtown. Its cheaper to just pay for parking with 2 people, let alone 3 or 4.

What if we did something like where the arc card has 5 free trips a month? Then people would be incentivized to try it out and we could track the data for route planning?

What other programs have you guys seen cities try? Free zones as mentioned already. Prices for different demos. Others?

I agree with the value of the data. Free transit loses that benefit. And a small cost to ensure its not abused makes sense too.

For many, our city will forever be hard to navigate without a car though, so combining the cost of car ownership with current transit fares is crazy. Hence why most people drive everywhere once they own a car. I find in Vancouver a lot of people still own cars, but take transit a lot more frequently due to cost and quality. I actually have a compass card for van cause of work but not even a card for where I live

 

[jason403]

I remember in Melbourne that they had a central tram that was free. It was a circle route that went through around the CBD. Seemed like a neat idea to get around. If you needed anything additional, could always buy a ticket for the regular transit system.

Maybe it would be interesting to use this for a bus route that went down Jasper Ave, 124 St, and Whyte Ave. Don't know what the solution would be to avoid this being a mobile homeless shelter though, as we witnessed when free transit was offered at the beginning of the Covid pandemic in Edmonton.

 

[erudyk_29]

Hi all,

Been a while since I was active on the forum so I may not be up to date. If anyone has brought these points up already I apologize as (full disclosure) I only skimmed the previous 3 or 4 posts before writing this. When it comes to free transit, Edmonton is not at that point yet. Until we get a much larger percentage of the population using transit services in my opinion it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Maybe in a few decades when transit (LRT in particular) becomes much more prominent in the city but not yet. That being said, transit could be made free in the near future for certain groups such as seniors or university students for whom owning a car can take a much larger percentage of their earnings and can be a big financial burden. They in my opinion would be the most likely to use such a system frequently.

 

[rmp]

What is the daily cap for the new fare?

My wife and I are a 1 car family and avid bikers. But the #1 inhibitor to using transit is the cost. I wanted to get a membership at a gym too far to walk, but my wife needs the car often for work. So if I was to bus to the gym, it would cost $7 a day. If I go 3-4 times a week, that's ~$90 a month just to get to the gym. So instead, I drive every day before she heads to work.

These sorts of short trips will never be replaced at the current cost. They'll work for monthly pass users, but without a work commute to justify a monthly pass, ill never need to buy one. Same thing for festivals, games, concerts downtown. Its cheaper to just pay for parking with 2 people, let alone 3 or 4.

What if we did something like where the arc card has 5 free trips a month? Then people would be incentivized to try it out and we could track the data for route planning?

What other programs have you guys seen cities try? Free zones as mentioned already. Prices for different demos. Others?

I agree with the value of the data. Free transit loses that benefit. And a small cost to ensure its not abused makes sense too.

For many, our city will forever be hard to navigate without a car though, so combining the cost of car ownership with current transit fares is crazy. Hence why most people drive everywhere once they own a car. I find in Vancouver a lot of people still own cars, but take transit a lot more frequently due to cost and quality. I actually have a compass card for van cause of work but not even a card for where I live

why not get a book of tickets? $27.75 for a book of 10 will save you about $0.70 per ride.

 

[CplKlinger]

What is the daily cap for the new fare?

Here it is, right from the horse's mouth! I can't link it here unfortunately, but let me know in the smart fare page if you want to get a peek at any other FAQs!