Edmonton's National Standing

[dunno]

I honestly wanna say overlooked. I still had people from out east thinking we're a tiny town, and probably the same with Americans too. We did breach the psychological "one million" milestone just recently as well so we're not on the radar as much.

Considering Vancouver still hasn't managed the one million milestone, I don't think the City of Edmonton reaching that within its arbitrary bounds amounts to much. Metro areas are much better barometers for this and with that in mind Edmonton passed a million close to 20 years ago. And I remember the hoopla that was made about it back then too.

Anyway, I agree that we're overlooked and often times people underestimate how big the city actually is. I've had people think Winnipeg is bigger. But also, most people don't look that closely at these things. Toronto-Montreal-Vancouver occupy a consistent 1-2-3 spot in Canada and beyond that, for most, it's anybody's guess.

But for as much as I complain about Edmonton, it's really trying to reimagine itself into a better place via urban policy than that our late 20th century car-centric legacy gifted us this century. Edmonton is moving the needle in a lot of very good ways and in some cases is kind of a trailblazer in an understated way. We were the first city to remove parking minimums, we've now got arguably the most progressive zoning in the country (which came after years of densification via skinny homes proving popular), are aggressively expanding rapid transit in a way that will close the gap we have with our peers in about a decade (and our rapid transit, so far, is better designed than what's in those peers), there's been an expansion of bridge housing and other supports to deal with those most marginalized, there's the plan to spend a few hundred million to give us hundreds of km of new bike lanes, and TODs are finally starting to blossom in a way that's been normal in most other big Canadian cities.

I remember how there was a lot of optimism in Edmonton a decade ago too, and although I'm disappointed we didn't quite reach as high as I thought we did, things are still overall improved from 20-25 years ago, and I think because so much work has been needed to reorient things here away from the status quo, we're only now starting to see the fruit bear from those earlier seeds, while more seeds are being planted. I'm cautiously optimistic for the Edmonton of 2033.

This doesn't mean Edmonton still can't learn a thing or two from Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, hell even smaller cities like Halifax, Quebec City, and Winnipeg. And I still will bemoan certain things, such as the general lack of architectural quality and only having one true busy main street (although maybe in a decade that won't be the case... here's looking at you, 124th).

 

[David A]

Canada is more than 3-5 cities. Sure.

But when you look to cover employment, housing, economic, etc type news and data, are you going to say, let’s look to the top 13 cities? No. You primarily see top 3, top 5, and occasionally top 10s.

But canada is, much more than the states, defined by a handful of our large cities. And that’s what drives growth and informs perceptions. Look at all the media and attention Calgary has gotten the last few years. How companies, capital, immigrants, and young people have flocked there. It’s because they’ve gotten “onto the lists” in a way that Edmonton, Winnipeg, and our other “large” but not top 5 cities haven’t.

And even if Edmonton is bigger than Ottawa, there’s still work to do to make Edmonton relevant enough to get on those lists. If there’s only 5 spots, I want us to make it up there. Whether an industry report, city ranking, news coverage, whatever. Edmonton gets shelved way more than it should for being barely smaller than Calgary and equal-ish for years with ottawa.

We talk in other threads about attracting talent and our council not promoting our city enough. This stuff plays into that.

Yes, top 5 or top 10 are arbitrary numbers. Referring to top 5 in particular makes absolutely no sense in Canada as we have three larger cities, each of a distinct size and then 3 other cities very, very close in size to each other..

 

[thommyjo]

Yes, top 5 or top 10 are arbitrary numbers. Referring to top 5 in particular makes absolutely no sense in Canada as we have three larger cities, each of a distinct size and then 3 other cities very, very close in size to each other..

Go look at reports. Whether its economic ones, housing, industry research, 5 is often the number displayed.

Oh the urbanity recently did a video where they looked at the top 5 and snubbed Edmonton.

So whether you think 6 is more logical given the cutoffs (I agree with you), the reality is that we need to get ourselves as high as possible because there are only so many spots. Making sure Edmonton gets on lists instead of Ottawa is the only realistic thing at this point as the top 3 are locked and Calgary has locked 4th imo, even if population wise there’s not a big gap.

 

[David A]

Your comment about the top 5 makes some sense, say for instance if it is an international organization doing this for various countries. I get 5 is probably also often picked because it is half of ten.

But if it is just a Canadian organization doing the ranking, they are probably just arbitrarily picking 5 and not really thinking if it makes sense, because it actually doesn't.

I don't know if my comments will have any impact on things, but this is probably just a case of just blindly doing "what has always been done" and it is good to at least question that sometimes.

In any event, fortunately we seem to be pulling ahead of Ottawa slightly, so perhaps this will eventually become more their problem than ours.

 

[archited]

Here's an anecdotal example: back when I was entertaining a girlfriend's girlfriend and her husband (a braggadocios SOB visiting from Ottawa) a place where I lived for a couple of years prior to this particular visit, I thought that I would impress them with a drive from my then abode (Lord Byron Place -- Lendrum) to downtown so I chose a very specific route that included Groat Road west of the U of A so that the river valley's edge on the North side of the river would spring into view at just the appropriate moment when I was heading across the Groat bridge. Ignoring the impressive view of mid-rise apartment buildings lined up along the top of the river valley, the arrogant easterner said "why are the trees so small here -- they look like saplings compared to Ottawa trees". I told him that they had just recently been planted and that they would soon grow to be twice as tall as Ottawa trees. "In fact", I told him, "let me drive you to where the trees are mature".
I then drove out deep into Parkland County (almost to Wabamun), got off 16 East and went north several miles to some miscellaneous lake and said, "now we have to walk the rest of the way to see these spectacular trees". When we were three hundred feet or so along a pedestrian path I then excused myself to go back to the car to fetch my sunglasses, feigning forgetfulness. When I got to the car I got in and drove away, rolling down my window to shout, "beware the wolves, they are twice as big as the ones around Ottawa!"
Easterners... Ptui, ptui, ptui!

 

[occidentalcapital]

Population growth is our friend. As the city reaches to 2mil and beyond the profile will grow naturally. Few cities have the kind of advantage that Edmonton has by growing steadily larger every year. So in some ways this problem will take care of itself.

 

[Munanyo]

Here's an anecdotal example: back when I was entertaining a girlfriend's girlfriend and her husband (a braggadocios SOB visiting from Ottawa) a place where I lived for a couple of years prior to this particular visit, I thought that I would impress them with a drive from my then abode (Lord Byron Place -- Lendrum) to downtown so I chose a very specific route that included Groat Road west of the U of A so that the river valley's edge on the North side of the river would spring into view at just the appropriate moment when I was heading across the Groat bridge. Ignoring the impressive view of mid-rise apartment buildings lined up along the top of the river valley, the arrogant easterner said "why are the trees so small here -- they look like saplings compared to Ottawa trees". I told him that they had just recently been planted and that they would soon grow to be twice as tall as Ottawa trees. "In fact", I told him, "let me drive you to where the trees are mature".
I then drove out deep into Parkland County (almost to Wabamun), got off 16 East and went north several miles to some miscellaneous lake and said, "now we have to walk the rest of the way to see these spectacular trees". When we were three hundred feet or so along a pedestrian path I then excused myself to go back to the car to fetch my sunglasses, feigning forgetfulness. When I got to the car I got in and drove away, rolling down my window to shout, "beware the wolves, they are twice as big as the ones around Ottawa!"
Easterners... Ptui, ptui, ptui!

Not really sure what your problem is with "easterners" or Ottawans in particular?

I'm from Ottawa, have had many friends come visit Edmonton from Ottawa, and all have found things they appreciated here that isn't over there. Just because you chose to entertain a couple of "arrogant easterners" that should not lead you to paint everyone from there with a broad paint brush. The fact you had to choose a very particular route to "showcase" Edmonton means you're insecure with peoples perceptions of the city.

If they do not like the city for what it is and has to offer then that's their right to think as such. But please, don't play into the whole "those damn eastern folks" rhetoric spewed by some angry rural Albertans or the media.

 

[occidentalcapital]

Alberta a bright spot in slowing Canadian economy

Marc Desormeaux on the well-rounded strength of Alberta's economy and finances as it benefits from a wide range of tailwinds. Watch him here

financialpost.com

If this keeps up, expect more and more people to seek to move to Alberta.

 

[ChazYEG]

Not really sure what your problem is with "easterners" or Ottawans in particular?

I'm from Ottawa, have had many friends come visit Edmonton from Ottawa, and all have found things they appreciated here that isn't over there. Just because you chose to entertain a couple of "arrogant easterners" that should not lead you to paint everyone from there with a broad paint brush. The fact you had to choose a very particular route to "showcase" Edmonton means you're insecure with peoples perceptions of the city.

If they do not like the city for what it is and has to offer then that's their right to think as such. But please, don't play into the whole "those damn eastern folks" rhetoric spewed by some angry rural Albertans or the media.

Ditto. I know plenty of folks from the east that came visit and found many things to be appreciated.

There is a point to be said about Torontonians, in particular, though. In general, they seem to have very little interest in getting to know anything about the rest of the country and, especially, Western Canada. There are exceptions, but I notice that this mindset is very prevalent amongst the people I know from there.

 

[archited]

@Munanyo it was a tongue-in-cheek joke -- do you really think that I abandoned people in the wilderness? In every joke there is a little truth -- if TOs and Cap City folks can give out an off-the-mark perception of Western Canada then they should certainly be able to take a little ribbing. My two years in Ottawa were enjoyable to the max -- Ottawa House (in what was then Hull) was a favorite hangout at the time -- played there as a house band for a couple of gigs. Oh and I also enjoyed the ratio of women to men (60:40). I just see Edmonton as a place with an extremely bright future.

 

[Munanyo]

@Munanyo it was a tongue-in-cheek joke -- do you really think that I abandoned people in the wilderness? In every joke there is a little truth -- if TOs and Cap City folks can give out an off-the-mark perception of Western Canada then they should certainly be able to take a little ribbing. My two years in Ottawa were enjoyable to the max -- Ottawa House (in what was then Hull) was a favorite hangout at the time -- played there as a house band for a couple of gigs. Oh and I also enjoyed the ratio of women to men (60:40). I just see Edmonton as a place with an extremely bright future.

Thanks for clearing that up; sometimes it can be hard to interpret the intentions when reading posts online. Just felt compelled to comment as it felt personal as someone who is from Ottawa (and continues to love, appreciate and many days miss my hometown). Unfortunately there are some negative folks who from every place and city who will look down at any place that isn't their own.

I agree with yours and @ChazYEG's posts though that people from the GTA seem to particularly not care about anywhere else but the GTA and will look down even on cities who easily go toe-to-toe with Toronto.

 

[Foolworm]

As far as I'm concerned, Edmonton has nothing to prove.

Last thing I want is people to pick up on the great urban things that are being done, flood the market with speculative money, and drive up prices.

 

[David A]

@Munanyo it was a tongue-in-cheek joke -- do you really think that I abandoned people in the wilderness? In every joke there is a little truth -- if TOs and Cap City folks can give out an off-the-mark perception of Western Canada then they should certainly be able to take a little ribbing. My two years in Ottawa were enjoyable to the max -- Ottawa House (in what was then Hull) was a favorite hangout at the time -- played there as a house band for a couple of gigs. Oh and I also enjoyed the ratio of women to men (60:40). I just see Edmonton as a place with an extremely bright future.

Good that you cleared that up, I was beginning to wonder if we were going to have to send a search or rescue party for them.

I feel some people from Ontario are generally not so openly arrogant and bragging, but more subtly dismissive about other places and just really not that interested in them. There is some truth to the term centre of the universe used to refer to parts of central Canada. There are some people there who feel other places are small and unimportant, so they just don't pay much attention to them. It probably has its roots in history when western Canada had a much smaller population compared to the rest of Canada, but it now has three cities with over a million people. So, things have changed a lot, but some peoples perceptions have not.

 

[dunno]

Population growth is our friend. As the city reaches to 2mil and beyond the profile will grow naturally. Few cities have the kind of advantage that Edmonton has by growing steadily larger every year. So in some ways this problem will take care of itself.

I mean Jakarta is the second largest metro area in the world and yet hardly anyone knows anything about it. Lots of cities grow steadily -- we need things beyond numbers to stick out.

 

[occidentalcapital]

I mean Jakarta is the second largest metro area in the world and yet hardly anyone knows anything about it. Lots of cities grow steadily -- we need things beyond numbers to stick out.

We aren't in a developing country though. In 5 years we'll be at 2 million people, in 10 we'll be at 2.5 million. In Canada. That means every one of those 2.5 million people have spending power, entitlement to high quality Healthcare and education, the opportunity to start a business in the formal economy, developed world housing requirements, expectations of eating out, traveling, shopping, and make up a large media market.