northlands
Senior Member
Thanks for the insight sir! Neat stuff to read.
Metro 78 | 23m | 6s | Pinto Properties | Frank Hilbich
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thommyjo
Senior Member
I'm just not sure everyone should get an equal say in zoning. We don't gove everyone an equal say in education or Healthcare or dozen other areas of society. We recognize that many areas require specialized knowledge and therefore should be left to professionals. Places for stakeholder engagement and democratic elections of officials make sense, but there can't be equal weighting of opinions for every decision. Nothing would get done.
Also, ill reflect on the ageism. That's not my intent, so im sorry. There is a problem though in the current model. It gives preferential treatment to, like mentioned, wealthier, older, retired, and white residents.
As a city, we need to be thinking about how to serve our aging demographics, 100%. We also need to look to the next generations though and the tens of thousands of immigrants moving to our city. The opinions of stay at home moms in glenora can't represent their communities or the city, let alone those hoping to live in the city.
The ARP in my neighbourhood was mostly developed by seniors. Is that appropriate when many of the decisions made will disproportionately affect families and younger residents?
This doesn't even step into the more sensitive areas like how ARPs can reinforce discrimination and racism. Our residents, for example, are on record going to council meetings and arguing against rental projects because of the types of people who rent. The explicit and suggestive comments were laced with dislike for lower income people, university students, singles, and ethnic minorities.
APPs often hide behind language for density, safety, charm, etc. But whether intentionally or not, they can become tools of gatekeeping, privilege, and increasing structural inequality.
Also, ill reflect on the ageism. That's not my intent, so im sorry. There is a problem though in the current model. It gives preferential treatment to, like mentioned, wealthier, older, retired, and white residents.
As a city, we need to be thinking about how to serve our aging demographics, 100%. We also need to look to the next generations though and the tens of thousands of immigrants moving to our city. The opinions of stay at home moms in glenora can't represent their communities or the city, let alone those hoping to live in the city.
The ARP in my neighbourhood was mostly developed by seniors. Is that appropriate when many of the decisions made will disproportionately affect families and younger residents?
This doesn't even step into the more sensitive areas like how ARPs can reinforce discrimination and racism. Our residents, for example, are on record going to council meetings and arguing against rental projects because of the types of people who rent. The explicit and suggestive comments were laced with dislike for lower income people, university students, singles, and ethnic minorities.
APPs often hide behind language for density, safety, charm, etc. But whether intentionally or not, they can become tools of gatekeeping, privilege, and increasing structural inequality.
Kaizen
Senior Member
As expected there was a lot of opposition to this project, so disappointing...
WHAT WE HEARD REPORT
Online Public Engagement Feedback Summary
LDA20-0066 - Metro 78
PROJECT ADDRESS: 11416, 11419, 11420, and
FEEDBACK SUMMARY
This section summarizes main themes collected.
Number of Responses:
In Support: 9
In Opposition: 108
Mixed: 10
WHAT WE HEARD REPORT
Online Public Engagement Feedback Summary
LDA20-0066 - Metro 78
PROJECT ADDRESS: 11416, 11419, 11420, and
FEEDBACK SUMMARY
This section summarizes main themes collected.
Number of Responses:
In Support: 9
In Opposition: 108
Mixed: 10
CplKlinger
Senior Member
I'm still very surprised from that large disparity, given that the McKernan Community League voiced support for it in its community newsletter.
IanO
Superstar
Happens all the time in a regular 1/10 ratio or 10/1 ratio depending how you look at it.
Living in a democratic society doesn't mean you have equal say on everything. We all have the ability to vote for individuals that will govern at the municipal, provincial, or national level. Public servants also provide their best evidence based advice to elected officials who then make decisions on the path forward. Sometimes those decisions are not the best and bias can often enter into those decisions instead of rational thinking. At the end of the day, there are people in Administration and elected officials that we have enabled to make decisions on our behalf. Sometimes the public doesn't agree or is divided on policy decisions that the government makes - see the pandemic response as an example of that.
As far as engagement goes, representation matters, and unfortunately, our current methods of engagement are not capturing all demographics resulting in a one size fits all approach to planning input and ultimately, decisions. I think others have provided pretty good examples of the demographics that have the biggest influence on planning in most places.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the next steps of this project.
buildings
Active Member
great project. if they don't want you, move it over to Oliver.
David A
Senior Member
Yes, everyone is entitled to their views and can express them. However, we often seem to forget these days, we live in a democracy, not an unanimity. So the bar for a project is not that it might have some negative or perceived negative impacts on someone nearby. It probably will. A better test is whether is is good overall and is reasonable given the location.
There is a LRT line running by right in front of it. Is the best use of that land really single family homes?
When I went first to university, I had a transit ride to where I lived. Everyday, I went by the single family homes on 114 St everyday thinking, why wasn't there more density there. It made and still makes no sense.
There is a LRT line running by right in front of it. Is the best use of that land really single family homes?
When I went first to university, I had a transit ride to where I lived. Everyday, I went by the single family homes on 114 St everyday thinking, why wasn't there more density there. It made and still makes no sense.
northlands
Senior Member
Because it's a "**** you, I got mine" world there.
CplKlinger
Senior Member
As one person on Twitter put it: "Baby Boomers did that thing where you leave a single square of toilet paper on the roll and pretend it's not your turn to change it but with a whole society"
Disclaimer: I'm not saying old people should be left out of anything (or that all boomers are like this), the tweet just made me laugh and I thought it was apt.
archited
Senior Member
Beatles, burnt bras, mini-skirts, freedom movements, rights marches, "make love not war", "ban the bomb" -- the "sixties" -- baby boomers had it right once upon a time. They passed the torch, but I am not sure who caught it?!?
David A
Senior Member
Perhaps at some point as the saying goes, we lost the plot. I say we in a general sense, as I am not quite old enough to be a baby boomer.
I am somewhat cynical. I expect this whole thing will repeat itself again to some degree as the very idealistic in the younger generation eventually gets older, have to take on responsibility and focus more on their own personal struggles.
Times have changed, there is no conventional war to protest right now, but some things we need to get right so younger people can have a decent future and that is something all generations need to work on together now.
I am somewhat cynical. I expect this whole thing will repeat itself again to some degree as the very idealistic in the younger generation eventually gets older, have to take on responsibility and focus more on their own personal struggles.
Times have changed, there is no conventional war to protest right now, but some things we need to get right so younger people can have a decent future and that is something all generations need to work on together now.
CplKlinger
Senior Member
It sounds like this still in the works, thank goodness. Pinto's website currently lists this as "coming 2024", whereas last year (and the year before) it was listed as "coming 2022". I'll take a delay over a cancelation; hopefully this council is supportive of it. I'm especially fine with the delay since they're working on another great project in the meantime: Altairus, which they list as "coming 2023".
It looks like @Marcolangzi still checks the website, so I'll go ahead and ask: When do you want to see this brought to a public hearing? Have you engaged with Mike Janz yet to see if he's on board with this proposal, given how he generally seems supportive of these types of projects? Do you feel any more/less hopeful of your prospects with this council compared to the previous slate? Thanks for your time; if you do end up seeing this, I wish you the best of luck in getting this built. We sorely need well thought out, and beautifully designed and integrated projects like this to fill our missing middle.
It looks like @Marcolangzi still checks the website, so I'll go ahead and ask: When do you want to see this brought to a public hearing? Have you engaged with Mike Janz yet to see if he's on board with this proposal, given how he generally seems supportive of these types of projects? Do you feel any more/less hopeful of your prospects with this council compared to the previous slate? Thanks for your time; if you do end up seeing this, I wish you the best of luck in getting this built. We sorely need well thought out, and beautifully designed and integrated projects like this to fill our missing middle.
cliffapotamus
Active Member
unleash Janz on this? i mean, things would start happening... hopefully good things...
I'm glad this isn't dead. It's so frustrating to me that something being done with such care and consideration for the community is getting stalled by an extra 2 floors, without which (i'm guessing) the project isn't economically viable.
I had a whole tangent here about how much of a prototype/example this will become, but long rant cut short; this thing would raise the bar for all future infill developments of it's type/site situation if done right.
I'm glad this isn't dead. It's so frustrating to me that something being done with such care and consideration for the community is getting stalled by an extra 2 floors, without which (i'm guessing) the project isn't economically viable.
I had a whole tangent here about how much of a prototype/example this will become, but long rant cut short; this thing would raise the bar for all future infill developments of it's type/site situation if done right.
Marcolangzi
New Member
Sometimes it is better to put your head down and keep working. But if anyone thought this project was dead, they don’t know our team.
Keep your ears to the ground as people say.